Market America: A Review Of The Pros And Cons

Thanks for making such a detailed review. I’ve emailed you.

@Peter: Got it Peter.

Thank you for the comments, both PRO and CON. It makes my decision much more informed.
M

@MF-S: You’re very welcome – all the best with whatever you decide.

I have learned quite a bit from your review about a business some friends have recently gotten into. I really wasn’t sure what they were trying to sell me. I saw lots of brands and company names and wonder: Why would I buy through them when I can go directly to a company’s website?

@Rose: Fair question.

If you go direct to the company’s website to order, you will see this as you checkout:

“Were you referred by a friend?
If you were referred by a friend, please enter his or her e-mail address or promo code:”
____________________________________________________
Search for a Market America Customer Manager”

Up to you what you do there of course, but that’s how MA handles your question.

Check out this Bloomberg BusinessWeek article for a good read on Market America.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/11_27/b4235068745806.htm

Very interesting article in BusinessWeek. Thank you!

Hmm. It has some nice insights into the founders, holes in their MLM model and talk, and the atmosphere around the company.

But the point of view was pre-determined and MA was doomed going in to this article. For example: “Market America is the latest and most sophisticated incarnation of multilevel marketing (MLM), that controversial business model that exploits the get-rich-quick dreams of every red-blooded American. … Each distributor finds new distributors, and so on, so that money flows upward in a pyramid shape…” Ah well.

Then should i take risk and ride with this market?

@AL: I’d ask 2 fundamental questions…

1. Would you recommend the MA products/system even if you weren’t making a penny off it?

If no, then you are doing it purely for the money which is not a good way to do any business. Go find a business you can honestly recommend first.

But if yes, then the next question is…

2. Do you have a plan for building your business?

Hopefully you get this from you would-be sponsor, but you also need training on how to market and brand yourself – otherwise you are just another MA distributor, and why should someone join you? This is the MLM marketing training I recommend.

There are other details, but these are the fundamentals for everything else.

This article is only about 60-70% accurate. This person obviously never joined the company as i did. I strongly recommend against getting involved with Market America. They are very dishonest and mislead people into thinking they can be profitable from people shopping online. That will not happen, the business model is highly flawed. People have spent over $15-20,000 at MA partner stores through their MA portal and STILL did not receive that first IBV commission check of $300. They had to spend nearly $30,000 to get there, so do the math, – $1 in commission for every $100 spent. That is horrible to say the least. Which means the only way you are profitable is to earn at least $900 through BV – or the MA products. This requires you to recruit – alot. They mislead and say you just need two people. Well once you look at the business – you need 4800 BV every 30 days to be profitable. That earns you $900 in commissions. Because you are spending money with them each month – part of their scam plan – and worse, that amount goes UP once you get your first commission check of $300. SO in order to cover that you need to get to the next level of commissions, and that means 4800 BV – or 2400 on each “leg”. That means you will either be driving all over the place or wasting time with web advertising to try and get people to try products. You need 48 people – not 2. You need a bare minimum of 15 people – and hope they get two each – and that gets you to 45 (or 4500 BV – still 300 short). Not two people – 48 – to get 4800 BV. That is the real truth. It took someone I know 3 years to get 45 people, meanwhile they were spending $700 in start-up, then $150 per month after the first 90 days. So for 33 months (since first 3 are free) – 33 x $150 = $4,950 + $700 start-up = $5,650 spent before they got to a point where they could start earning $900 a month and be in the black each month after their product purchase obligation. Then at that point it really doesn’t mean anything – he was $5600 in the red, and had his first month in the black, clearing about $750 (after the $150 product purchase) So it still took him another 7-8 months to make his money back – we are now close to 4 years in this MA thing before he broke even. Then once you break even after 3 years and 8 months, you need to hope that these people keep buying this stuff each month, to keep you from dipping back into the red. That is what MA so inaccurately describes as a “residual” income. There is no residual – they are hoping that these 48 people , or enough businesses you sell to (good luck with that one!), continue to do so every month for the rest of their life. Not gonna happen.

So in short – avoid at all costs, and if you are in it, I say get out. They make it sound like you get in 2 people and in 90 days you are in the black. But as I illustrated above, that is very much NOT the case – if spending $5600 and waiting 3 years and 8 months to be profitable is a good thing to you, then give it a whirl. I say get a real job and you’ll be much better off.

That doesn’t happen very often, there are far more sad but true stories than there are positive stories – don’t let the kool-aid drinkers fool you. MA really is almost like a cult. You should see the way they act. their products are not good at all and are way overpriced. Selling to businesses gives you a slim chance of making it – but try that for 6 months and see how it works for you. It doesn’t – the pricing doesn’t allow for them to make any money. And the commissions structure is so heavily favored towards the MA products, it forces you to try and sell them. It’s like running into a wall over and over again on a bike – just craziness.

So the chances of being successful with this are extremely thin. Even for highly motivated business owners like myself – it is barely after 7:30 AM here on the east coast and I have been in the office for over two hours. Even if it doesn’t take you 3 years to get to a point of generating 4800 BV every 30 days – it will take you much, much longer than the 90 days they advertise. And they will not put people under you, that is a myth. Do not be misled into thinking shopping will make you profitable – and focus on being PROFITABLE, not being paid. they like to mislead and say you get paid for people shopping. Well sure you do – very little, and to actually be PROFITABLE takes a very long time and alot of your money. Don’t do it – just get a real job.

You didn’t leave a name, but thanks for taking the time to comment.

Usually I delete or shorten such long comments, but yours is too good for that. I’ll email you to see what we can do about this, or get in contact with me if that email doesn’t get through spam filters safely.

Everyone in MA, or considering MA, should have their own business plan and would do well to test their plan against what you describe. MA is competing in the online marketing model and this is a cutthroat business where margins are always under pressure. Two days ago I spoke to someone asking me about MA and I echoed this commenter in saying that in MA the money is more in selling the products that are unique to the company, and having the rest of the online shopping as a bonus. It seems this ‘insider’ agrees.

@MA is a Scam: Sounds to me like you would would have failed in most traditional busineses also i have been with the company for 3months i have made over 500 and will be geting my first 300 check this month, the product do work great we are helping people and they are reordering some folks just fial in life and want to blame everything on the system, 20 years sucess and over 300 millionairs made in the company not a scam.

@Kevin: Fair point Kevin.

Good review. I want to give it a try because Market America will go to China next year. I hope to promote its products in Chinese (http://www.mei-an.biz). Thx.

The company positions you to be successful if you understand the basic fundamentals of business and markets. Health and Nutrition market for example is a multi billion dollar market. Nearly 53% of Americans are taking supplements. Our job is simply to introduce the ones who are taking supplements market americas Isotonix to see if they find it useful and more convenient. So far I have had great success in doing just that. All of my clients would prefer isotonix over taking a pill because they understand the benefits etc. I have had too many stories and testimonies regarding MA products to even consider any negative feedback from “X” distributors who unfortunately were not trained one on one or sold a pipe dream. For someone who thinks our products are expensive? Well they are extremely price competitive. Take our OPC-3 for example. $70.00 for a 3 month supply. Mona-Vie sells their comparative antioxidant for $79.00 a month! While Amway sells their Antioxidant complex for $77.49 ( which will last 90 days) but then again they are pills and I would aggressively argue that Isotonix OPC-3 is a better product for multiple reasons. So when you have no competition and are in a monopoly it makes no sense not to stick with MA and their products. Since not everyone is interested in Slanging health and nutrition products they have environmentally friendly products for pets, and your household. These are huge markets because everyone is trying to go green now, and people care about their pets. Plus they have cosmetics. So again they have tapped into multiple markets which position you to succeed. MA doesnt sell you a million dollar dream but according to their MPCP they pay generously with the BV which will help you make ends meet. Their business model is also ethical in the sense where distributors get capped on their income so they dont make money off the people all the way at the bottom. (unlike all the mlms out there) I would agree not EVERYONE is for MA, but if you cannot do this one then you cannot do any of them.

Your statement is full of holes and the truth is you yourself are misleading people. I could ramble on as well with a page length of comments but its not worth it. My wife and I commission well through the pay system. And while its not easy, no business is easy, it works much more effectively than how you described it. Here is what I say, stay off web blogs where people provide their uneducated opinions 24 hours a day. You will find more opportunity evaluating things on your own rather than listening to people who don’t have what you are looking for.

Thanks Think Logically – there is lots I could comment on here, but most of it I have mentioned before.

The only thing I would add is that it is not necessary to put down other MLMs to promote your own. Play nice. There is room for everyone.

Hi Ron – there are a lot of uneducated or part-educated opinions around. I hope that the way I run my blog helps people to learn how to evaluate things on their own. To follow on from what you wrote, don’t ask someone who hasn’t succeeded in doing what you want to do, how you can succeed. They simply don’t know.

Thanks Kevin, one of the previous comments was disconcerting and obviously he/she did not know that whatever you supposedly need to buy as a requirement can be resold to your customers so you are only out the $20 fee a month to keep your back office business up and running. Another thing, CASH BACK is AWESOME!!!! For every person who starts shopping through our Web Portal you receive 1/2% of all their purchases……..it is a WIN-WIN situation. Also, nothing was stated about re-entry and 100% of all you do benefits everyone above you in your organization, all the way to the top. I have never seen a business plan like this one and I have never seen as many MILLIONAIRE’S in other business’s. Yes, this is an unfranchise leaning towards a franchise……………MLM it is not!!!!

Thanks Ron for your comments as well………..all one has to do is check out the Profiles page of Market America to see what commissions are being paid weekly………GO MA rising quickly in the Fortune 500 of Online Retailers……..#61 and moving to the TOP!!!

RIGHT ON Rob, we are only in five countries now and doing excellent for a company only 19 years old……..76 quarters of continual growth. What I like about MA is that every business owner has an opportunity to make residual income and help others achieve in their organization!!! I have seen business owners with partners who have achieved more in residual income than them. This is not a company where one person makes more than their business partners!!!! Anyone in your organization can succeed you in commissions……I see it happen frequently!!

Quote: “MLM it is not!!!!” Please be careful about your definitions. MA has multi-level compensation income for more than 2 levels = MLM (even if you prefer to use a different word for it.)

There are Pros & Cons to everything. Most of the quitters tend to never win at any endeavour. If you follow the math, do the work, you will get paid. If there is a short cut to something it usually never works out for you anyway.
MA is not for everyone, face it, I’ve seen many in MA that probably should not be there. As far as a system that produces residual, if you know of another outside MA that can stand up to their compensation plan, I always keep my options open.

I have been at it for a year and a half with MA. Making about $200 a month at this point. So many strong oppinions going both ways. I am actually afraid to stop MA. I am an IT guy, but I know that with a “real” job you don’t really get anywhere. So this is my back up plan. I can see my team growing and the BV growing. Plus who doesn’t want to be paid for everything we are buying already? I am an entrepreneur minded person and a normal job just isn’t for me. How many people do we really know that work til 65 years old, have their health, stop working and continue there lifestyle. That is the scary part. MA allows me to get out of my job and enjoy life. I have a plan. There is no way in hell I am working til 65 years old, dear lord who does this???

@Dan: For the leverage in MLM to kick in it is really a 2-5 year plan. And the entrepreneurial learning along the way is incredibly useful as well. Nice work so far Dan!

I think it is a BIG SCAM. I know a girl who pretends to make so much money, [Editor: deleted name ****], and yet it took her forever to achieve anything of substance. She is never home, from what I see neglects her kid ( always some fiasco) and she lies about how good she does.. I know that for a fact. So if you want to be scammed…join this..Best advise. Get a REAL JOB

I left out that she says it is NOT a pyramid, it is not multi level, it is not blah blah blah.
Which to me misrepresents what this really is. If you want to be misrepresented, then go for it!

“Get the facts straight before you distort them.” – Mark Twain

I offer up my input as someone who is approaching the 3 year mark of the MA “3-year plan”. I am also the “doubting spouse” whose first 6 months of experience with MA was spent criticizing my wife for getting us involved. In other words, I’m a converted critic.

First I’d like to draw attention to Jay Goltz article, published int he NY Times titled “Top 10 Reasons Why Small Businesses Fail” http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/05/top-10-reasons-small-businesses-fail/

Most people will click on this article and skip over the first two paragraphs and go right down to the 1-10 list because they want to know what the 10 are. The most important part of this article IS the first two paragraphs – Paraphrased: The difficulty in clearly determining why more than half of all small businesses fail is simple: Because that particular information comes from the entrepreneur who failed in the endeavor, and is therefore not just subjective, but often downright off-base because that person is often in denial about what THEY did wrong, and is more apt to blame market conditions, mismanagement, poor research, and everything else under the sun that doesn’t involve THEM. So, while we are on poor research, if you are doing your due diligence on MA:

1. Find people who are succeeding with it, and get THEIR opinion, not people who have failed at it. We’ve all heard that there are no bad children, only bad parents? Well, there is really only one flaw in MA, and that is the reality that there ARE bad sponsors in the matrix who will “accept” a new distributor BEFORE making sure that new distributor CAN and WILL succeed. Trust me, a GOOD sponsor isn’t going to pressure you to make a decision, and when you say “It’s time” they’ll probably make you wait even further, because that “good” sponsor, NEEDS to make sure you have the best shot of YOU succeeding at this for HIM to make money. Dare I say that he actually wants YOU to make more than HE does, because that means he then can make even more by building the business further.

2. Making sure you CAN and WILL succeed. If someone is recruiting you for MA, ask them about the “Trial Run”. This is the one and only business opportunity IN THE WORLD that allows you to take the business for a test-drive FIRST, before you invest your money into it. Any MA sponsor that does not offer a recruit the “Trial Run” first a.) is shortsightedly acting in their own best interest, and that of their own commission check, and neglecting your best opportunity for success vs. failure with the least amount of money invested. and b.) is also NOT actually doing the business the way it is designed to be executed. Successful distributors make nothing off of new distributors entering and then failing at this. In fact, its a waste of his time and resources from a training standpoint.

3. Money spent is almost inconsequential to the success equation. Even if you spent $10K in the first year (which is alot) on products, training, travel etc., that is peanuts compared to a traditional business. The REAL reason for almost every MA failure is this: Failure to spend the time and effort necessary operating the “franchise” BY THE BOOK. This is very often the sponsor’s fault. In MY case, I almost doomed our own business to failure by doing this. After 6 months of criticizing my wife about MA I finally bought in. THEN, I spent another 12 months trying to do it MY way. In other words, for 18 months, I was the problem. I was what held us back from the success we’re now experiencing.

So here is the best advice I can give – If I were to start MA from scratch again today, I would:

1. (and most importantly) I would literally “shop” within the MA ranks for the BEST sponsor I can find in my area. I would find people who are succeeding at MA, and ask to meet THEIR senior partners.

2. I would insist on a Trial Run. It eliminates all the risk in the event of a failure.

3. I would invest the minimal $$ necessary to do all the required trainings that distributors need to do, while I was on the trial run.

4. I would allow myself to be “coachable”. This was a tough one for me. Back to entrepreneurs being their own worst enemy?? OUr pedaling through sand with MA in our first 18 months comes can be 100% attributed to me having been an entrepreneur first. I thought MY way would be better. I didn’t want to “join” anything that someone could (and has here) called “a cult”. A cult it is not. It’s a fraternity of people who end up making money while their golfing, as a reward for helping other people make money. It just involves some sweat for the first few years. Many people arent that patient.

@AJ: Looks like an entire post in itself – and valuable information to boot. Do you have a blog? other articles? would you be okay having this as a guest article on here? I’m serious. Let me know.

I like this, prime my pump.

Market America is an awesome business and definitely NOT a scam. The person that wrote the book on top about it being a scam doesn’t know what he is talking about. I have been with the company for over 10 years and have been making a high 5 low 6 figure income for 8 of those years and ongoing. It is a business and I started this as a single mom and I wasn’t gone every night of the week. I DID put in about 8 hours a week consistently and over time built up my business. It has and continues to be the biggest blessing in my life. I watch other people work 60-70 hours a week when they desperately just wanted to be home with their kids. I have been home with my kids since 2002 because of this business while I worked a night or two a week sharing products and the business and built up a beautiful residual income that will pay me and my family for the rest of our lives. Like anything else, it’s what you put into to. I did put more time into it in the beginning and now just maintain. I have a life now that many dream about. I spent 2 weeks in the British Virgin Islands this year on a catamaran that we chartered with 6 other very successful Market America distributors. I never wanted to work a 9-5 job for 45 years of my life and thank God for Market America, I never will. I am willing to mentor anyone who is serious and coachable and willing to put in the 8-10 hours a week that it takes.

@Dr Martin Russell:

Hi Martin, I’ll be happy to. Contact me privately if you wish to discuss anything. [Editor: email sent AJ]

@Rene Sisk:

To think it is a scam is your own perogative. To publicly call out a distributor by name online is also your perogative. To criticize her parenting, however?? That is as unprofessional as you accuse her of being. You don’t live her life, and you don’t have to feed her kids. You have no platform to question how she goes about doing it.

@AJ: Thanks AJ – I somehow missed Rene’s comment, and that he had included a person’s real name. I have edited that out.

Rene: Naming is not what this post is for. Please use a site that is built to withstand lawyers, or even better, your own site.

@K2: Nice! Congrats on your work and on your success.

thanks so much for this article. I am looking into joining Market America but wanted to research before I began. I found everyone’s input very informative both the positive and the negative and I believe will help me make an informed decision. thanks again

@kimberly: Hope you find something that fits for you – and you learn how to make the most of it.

@Dan:

Dan, is $200 a month a typo?? I am considering MA, but I would hope after a year and a half that the income would be more like $2000 a month. $200 a month is not an incentive for me.

@Interested in MA: Considering that 90+% of people who start in an MLM do not ever get into profit, Dan may well be correct in saying $200 a month. Hope he replies to let us know.

But that shows the difference between what people standardly do in network marketing, versus having a proper MLM marketing plan.

Lyoness will be the best company in the world. They will be number 1 in the world. The Lyoness bussines model is one of the best. Thanks.

Wow – we have some Kool-Aid drinkers in here! You MA people are hilarious – have fun with your little cult. I agree with MA is a Scam above. My brother was in MA for 9 years and it was the biggest waste of time ever. They want you to sell skin cream! And all sorts of bs, like pills. They want you to get people hooked on these pills, it;s a disgraceful culture. They mislead you into joining. Now they have this web portal and they sue it as hook, telling you you will get paid to shop. That is completely false on every level, you will only make money selling their overpriced junk. we had a fun party one night throwing the stuff away, the neighbors and kids had a blast. MA is Amway, plain in simple. The little clown who started the company is an ex-Amway guy. NEVER trust anyone who wears dark glasses indoors, they are dishonest people. The only way you earn a “residual” is by people buying this crap the rest of their lives. All the products are lame from what were told by people who tried them. And way overpriced. It’s a racket, quite obviously.

The OPC3 made a few people sick. Do not use this stuff.

MA is a joke – a very bad idea, if someone approaches you – RUN. Don’t be another sucker and join their cult. You should see the way these people act – they have serious issues. They cheer and clap, it;s a very saddening situation, truthfully. There is a reason they have so many pending investigations and complaints. It’ll be interesting to see if they are still around in 3-5 years.

@Kevin:

Kevin,

You are way too new at this to know what you are talking about. Come back in a year and tell us how many people you got it, to get to 4800 BV every month, and make a profit. because remember – you just got your first whopping $300 check. You are still in the red, you spent how much at start-up, about $700? So you are at least $350 in the red still, not including lost time out recruiting or trying to sell pills.

Now that you have your first check – your monthly purchase amount from MA goes UP – so you are now giving them that $300 right back – to cover your 100BV worth of products to purchase.

So again – you are still in the red. I have owned 5 business, sold the last one for $85M, so yeah, I know a little bit about business sir.

The only way to be in the black – profitable – which is what us business people care about – you need to be earning at least $900 a month – to cover your monthly product purchases and still get a profit. That means 48 people under you – buying an average of 100BV per month – which takes time for them to get too as well. That takes years to get there.

The problem is they mis-advertise this thing as an e-commerce company – you will never earn IBV commission checks. It is all about their silly products.

My advice – get a real job, get out now before you buy anymore product, and stick with something longer and learn more about it before psoting on blogs.

best of luck.

@Loving MA:

MLM it is!!!…stop drinking the Kool-Aid…you people are too much.

And who wants to be selling pills? How much profit are you making per bottle, a dollar? wow!

This will never work people – I have seen it with my own eyes dozens of times. Get out when you can!

@MA is a Scam:

Good post above from “MA is a Scam”, that poster knows the real deal. We went thru the MA cult as well for a couple of years – do not join this thing people. They are sick and unethical, and the commission structure really will only reward you if you sell their products. The whole “get paid to shop” thing is a mirage, just like this poster says. MA should be sued for false advertising because you do not get paid to shop – you get paid for selling their useless products that are way overpriced.

People – it is important to not only continue the dialogue on these types of websites, to educate people of the scam that is MA, and the horrible business it is, and the sickening, unethical little weasels that work there and try and mislead people into joining with this whole “paid to shop” nonsense. But also to report your experiences to the Better Business Bureau. They are very interested in what is going on at MA, as the complaints have increased. Most of them related to this web portal which launched very recently, maybe 2-3 years ago. It is false advertising – there is no paid to shop – your paid from selling their BS products which suck as* beyond belief, to put it mildly. DO NOT use their OPC 3, my wife did MA and knows over 90 people who got sick from this stuff over a two year period, it takes time, at first they think it works, and they either get hooked or sick after that. It was a real mess and fortunately we helped people with treatment and lawsuits were avoided, but now these people are working on a lawsuit against MA. This stuff should be left to the real pro;s in healthcare, not these incompetent clowns. And their web portal should be shut down and likely will be from these pending lawsuits – since it is false advertising and there is no profit in the online shopping. One study a law firm did said a guy had to spend $30,000 through his own MA portal through partner stores to get his first $300 IBV check! That is ridiculous!! That is how impossible it is to be profitable form shopping, yet they present the company that they are a shopping company and that is absolutely disgraceful.

Back to the BBB. MA’s BBB rating will probably be downgraded in the next 3 months, is the way it is shaping-up.

Please keep the complaint coming in. The web site is https://www.bbb.org/file-a-complaint/. This gets you to the online complaint system. The BBB office you want to deal with is the Central North Carolina office. Market America is at 1302 Pleasant Ridge Road; Greensboro, NC 27409. Using this address in the complaint gets it to the right office. This branch of the BBB handles all complaints regarding MA from all over the country.

Always, always file a complaint when you have a problem with MA. These snakes need to be taken down, and it sounds like with the lawsuits pending that 2012 should be the start of that process, which is great news. We need good people and good companies, not little scamsters like JP or PJ or JR or whatever the heck is name is, he is ex-Amway – that should tell you all you need to know about him.

Wow – I leave the comments alone for a couple of days, and look what happens!

Fortunately these commentor have information, not just the usual whining and swearing. So, as yet, I haven’t deleted them.

As an MA rep you better have some sort of answers to these issues. For this blog I will sidestep the comments on OPC 3 – even as a medical doctor this is outside my area of expertise, and is as controversial as cow’s milk has become.

But don’t dismiss their concerns about MA as a viable business. Run the numbers yourself on the profitability of your own MA business.

And also read my quotes from Robert Kiyosaki. Kool-aid is fun, but it’s not a complete diet and the real marketers in this industry know it.

MA is a FRANCHISE.

Anyone who follows the system will make money….it takes a while, but as long as you follow the system, you will make money. Anyone who fails at it, I GUARANTEE YOU, did NOT follow the system.

If you buy a McDonalds, and try to sell hot dogs, you will fail. I’ll support my previous statements and challenge the recent ones:

1. Was your sponsor worth a damn?
2. Did they, or did they NOT insist that you do the basics, and did you do them? Regularly?
3. Did you HONESTLY apply 10-15 hours per week to it?
4. Did you HONESTLY work the “Getting Started Guide” to a T? Did you sponsor do it with you?
5. Did you…….?
6. Did you…….?
7. Did you…….?
8. Did you…….?

I hear the complaints? I hear every excuse in the book. I hear about “longevity” in the program. I hear “they want you to sell…..” Exactly what type of business opportunity are you going to embark on that isn’t going to require you to “sell” your product or service? But I don’t hear ANYONE say “For 2-3 years, I did EVERYTHING they told me I needed to do to make money, and I didn’t.” <— That's what I DON'T hear.

…and I don't want to hear that I'm a member of a cult. I own a Private Jet company for crying out loud. I know what it takes to run a business. I know all about black and red, I know all about overhead, I know all about P&L.

The bottom line on MA is that you need to think of it EXACTLY the way you would think of buying a McDonalds or a Panera Bread or other franchise opportunity. You don't buy a burger joint….you buy a book that tells you exactly how to make money selling burgers with all the variables taken out. Again, NOBODY makes money by buying a McDonalds and trying to sell bowls of their grandmother's soup in it.

So, MA "experts"….you tell me that you and your sponsor executed the "Getting Started Guide" and the Career Manual by the book, 10-15 hours per week, for 2-3 years and it DIDN'T WORK….and I'm ALL EARS. I don't care how well you run your "other" business. I run mine well too. But my Market America business DOES NOT work the same way. It is a FRANCHISE…the more I try to "innovate" the less it performs. The more I follow what's already been proven by others to work, the more money it earns. Call me a cult member? Then call the owner of your local McDonalds a cult member too.

NLDS time. Go Phillies!!

There are also SPECIFIC comments made that I would like to address:

1. “Selling their pills”. I guess you are referring to the health and wellness line, most of which is not pills, but I’ll leave that part alone. What I WILL say is that there are hundreds of MA distributors making a considerable living who haven’t sold 1 health/wellness product. MA offers a business opportunity for those interested in marketing cosmetics, skincare, small business websites.

2. OPC-3 making 90+ people that you know of sick. By all means, the minute that hits the press, PLEASE put a link to the article here….I’ll wait patiently for it. In the meantime, if ANYONE who is seriously considering MA as a business and is curious to the legitimate, efficacy of the health and wellness product lines, please feel free to contact me privately, and I will put you in DIRECT touch with one of my BOARD CERTIFIED physician partners who have integrated the products into their treatment plans with patients.

3. What it takes to get a $300 commission check. By yourself? You’;re right it’s impossible. No matter how much stuff you sell. The business model doesn’t reward “selling” superstars. You and a couple other people? Yeah, it may take a while. Anybody who adds up “how much” one person needs to spend or sell to get this or that IS MISSING THE ENTIRE POINT. It’s not about what one person can do. It’s about what a team can do together. When the top money earners in MA sell a product, LITERALLY THOUSANDS of people are given the credit for that sale toward a commission check, because they have strung together teams of thousands, and the whole team gets rewarded for what the leader does.

MA is for team-builders…..not sellers.

If anybody wants a LEGITIMATE education on how this works, please feel free to contact me privately…..there will be no sales schpeel to try to recruit you “in”. I will answer your questions objectively offline. I will not be playing tit-for-tat online here with the skeptics for one reason only: It takes absolutely NO GUTS to be a skeptic. Think about that….ANYBODY, absolutely anybody can be one. It takes guts to believe in yourself and to make something work. Thats what takes guts, and that is the exact reason why not everyone is successful in MA or in life.

Also, for those who say “Get a real job”, I’ll say this:

Anyone who has a job-related success story that has occurred in the last three years, I’d LOVE to hear about it!! e-mail me privately with it. I LOVE success stories, regardless of where they come from, within MA or outside of it. So if you have a job-related one, PLEASE share it with me…..I seriously would like to congratulate you. If you have a job-related success story that has occurred in the last 3 years, YOU my friend, deserve TONS of credit because you represent maybe one in every 10,000 people, possibly even more than that. You are ELITE in the world of employees, and I will honestly and legitimately salute your efforts and achievements because you deserve it.

Actually, I’ll add to my request, because I’m just a success-junkie!! I’m an entrepreneur both inside MA and outside of it. ANYONE who has their own business and wants to share a success story with me I’d LOVE to hear that as well. As I said, I have a successful business outside of MA. On any one given day, we have hundreds of thousands of dollars out on the street that I lose sleep over. The overhead is more than most people would invest in their home over the span of 30 years. I have employees that sometimes don’t want to show up. And, I work at it over 60 hours per week. So if ANYONE has a business success story that involves them working part-time, having made a couple hundred, to a couple thousand dollars of an investment, I WANT TO HEAR ABOUT IT. Seriously, I’d like to hear about what you do, I’d like to hear about your success, and I would also consider partnering with you on it, maybe even investing some money into your company. I’m ALL FOR success, and successful people, no matter what business they are in.

Oh, what the heck….a little tit-for-tat, after all, I’m in business and one of my fine products is being challenged:

OPC-3 making 90 people sick? The more I think about that, the more it sounds criminal to the point where reporting it the BBB would sounds a bit impotent, don’t ya think? Shouldn’t something like that get reported to a recognized law enforcement or health agency or the CDC? Shouldn’t the distributors who sold the product to those people face criminal charges for endangering lives? Shouldn’t the company face the same?

Wouldn’t there be ambulance-chasing lawyers all over that? So, where are the actual charges? I can’t find any. Not one. Not one recognized news agency, not one investigative reporter has turned one of these up in the 15 years that this product has been on the market.

In the meantime: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9AgJTdOMmg

Also, in the meantime, OPC-s are bioflavanoids that the body 1.) needs and 2.) most humans that don’t eat a bushel of blueberries per day don’t get enough of. Pycnogenol is clincially studied. Do the homework on it.

Fact. Every year, 110,000 Americans die as a direct result of a reaction to, or contraindication of a prescription medication taken in the proper dosage, UNDER the proper care of a physician. There are risks with every drug, and everyone knows it. Find me 4 cases over the last 25 years of someone dying as a direct result of a clinically studied scientifically backed nutritional supplement.

Show up here with facts, please.

Amen to that AJ. OPC-3 has changed the lives of so many people I know that I can’t even count. What is has done in my immediate family alone will keep me on it for the rest of my life. When the docs always ask my 72 year old mom how she can be as healthy as she is and her labs consistently great. OPC-3 making people sick? Hmmm, in 9 years I have never had a customer get sick on OPC. Pycnogenol has more clinical studies than almost any other ingredient on the market today. Do the research.

Market America is not a fly by night company. They have been around since 1992 and have a phenomenal track record. Every quarter since its inception there has been consistent growth. You don’t get that way doing the wrong thing. The president donated cases and cases of OPC-3 to the firefighters after 911 and one of the chiefs came to our Convention after and thanked him on stage saying that his firefighters were able to combat SO many breathing issues working in all those toxins because of the OPC-3.

I have to wonder about the people that go on here and say that it is a scam. Is it a scam because they failed? I was in 3 MLM’s and never made any money and got involved with Market America (that is NOT an MLM ) and make a 6 figure residual income. Maybe it is easier to blame the company than admit that maybe they either weren’t coachable or weren’t trained properly and if that is the case on behalf of many successful distributors I am sorry. I mentor the people I work with and one is even in the million dollar club meaning she has made over a million dollars in commissions. Is that peanuts?

I will continue to help entrepreneurs who are serious and committed to ongoing residual income who are willing to put in a whooping 8-10 works a week. Yes, it took me almost 3 1/2 year to “make it” but what a ride! Being able to stay home while my kids were growing up while watching everyone around me work 50 hours a week. Yep, I will keep my Market America business forever and continue to help others find the same freedom both in helath and wealth and go on with the wonderful lifestyle that I have built for my family and friends.

I am nobody special, not above average just had a dream to be home with my kids and worked this plan B and made it happen.

Way to go KB. Thanks for sharing your success story. Again, I really wonder if any of the nay-sayers have anything in the way of a success story of their own that has nothing to do with MA.

Scam? I wonder how many people the Motives by Loren Ridinger cosmetics “make sick”. The CW is REALLY gonna have one hell of a lawsuit on their hands once the BBB catches up with the “cosmetics that make people sick”. http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D9T4qLYgWQNs&h=zAQB7oO6sAQCEApsZ2B3b7PxQjahgGjpsxAwkA-9LocfZaQ

I’m sure that MA are crooks can help them with “treatment” to “avoid the lawsuit.”

ooops….heres the youtube link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T4qLYgWQNs

Sorry, I forgot to directly address our host-with-the-most’s directive!

“As an MA rep you better have some sort of answers to these issues. For this blog I will sidestep the comments on OPC 3 – even as a medical doctor this is outside my area of expertise, and is as controversial as cow’s milk has become.

But don’t dismiss their concerns about MA as a viable business. Run the numbers yourself on the profitability of your own MA business.”

Again, as a distributor Market America is not going to financially reward AJ for his superstar status as a salesman. I can convince people with much more business experience than me to charter a $60K ride on a private jet from NYC to Miami and back, by doing what a salesman needs to do – determining the needs of the client, qualifying them, converting the features of what I have to offer into benefits for them, and then asking for the sale…..AND I MAKE MONEY.

MA is different. Yes, it rewards sales with the retail profit margin of the product, but that is a job like any other….not a business opportunity. The BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY is not in the selling. It’s in the BUILDING OF TEAMS where each sells a respectable, yet minimal amount, and everyone on the team gets credit for it.

It’s not about MY web-portal and earning a meager 2% cash back on what I buy. It;’s about the fact that I have 100 teammates that I have assembled, EACH with their own web portal, and we SHARE in the cash-back AND commission generating power of the 100 web-portals of the 100 team-mates.

“Doing the math” for a stand-alone distributor is the WRONG barometer of the opportunity. Plain and simple. It is akin to assessing a 15-year old Mick Jagger’s prospects for a successful career as a solo artist without ever being in the Rolling Stones.

It’s not about the individual. It’s about the individual’s ability to build TWO distinct and self-sufficient teams. Nobody ever got wealthy at anything from the inside of a cave. Disney, Jobs, Buffett, Welch, Gates….all visionaries, but the invisible secret to their success is that not one of them would have amounted to a hill of beans without their ability to assemble strong teams of people who are BETTER at what they do THAN THEY ARE THEMSELVES.

Watch ANY human feat of amazement….I don’t care whether it is sending a man into space, Winning the Super Bowl or World Series, performing brain surgery. When you witness success, you are watching the successful result of a successful team of human beings. Look at any skyskraper, look at the car you drive, look at the computer or device you are looking at these words on….ALL result from a team.

Tiger Woods winning the Masters, is the result of a TEAM. Behind the victory is a team of coaches, mentors, teachers, club-makers, R&D people, athletic trainers, physicians.

When it comes to MA, FORGET THE MATH. It’s the TEAM you build or don’t build that makes the math happen or not happen.

(I love this forum Russell!) Anyway, with that^^^^ think about the team you are on at work. How good is it? How solid is your position on it? Who’s on the team FOR the team, and who is on it for himself? Are YOU on it for yourself?

I said this earlier in this thread a month ago, and I’ll say it again. There is one and ONLY one way to succeed at Market America…..and that is by helping others succeed at Market America. Ultimate pay-it-forward business opportunity. Those in it for themselves aren’t gonna make much. Those in it to help their teammates succeed, make the most. This is why we take offense to the MLM moniker because it is the furthest thing from exploitative. Anyone who doesn’t make money at MA either got recruited onto a bad team or couldn’t build a good one of their own. I GOT recruited onto a bad team. Just so happens that I built a good one of my own so it didn’t matter.

Have I answered everything Russ? Please let me know if there was something I failed to address!!

Actually, I’d like to address and clarify some of the stated “Cons” up at the top.

Cons:

“Third, to become an UnFranchise Owner with your website and business systems – and get access to the downline commission payments, does cost money. There is an initial set-up fee of $130, a monthly fee of $20 and a $99.95 yearly fee.”

100% accurate. Let me explain the $20/month – As a distributor you are given a web portal. Actually as of last week, distributors get two, the distributor’s unique marketamerica.com/ web portal, and since the shop.com aquisition, we each get a unique shop.com/ web portal (which btw, MA charges us no additional money for). These are both multi-million dollar pieces of internet technology, fully e-commerce enabled with shopping carts, able to take credit cards at thousands of recognized retailers without the distributor needing a merchant account of any type. Behind the web portal is a web based back office to manage the business with, it tracks customers, orders, commission, generates reports, schedules trainings, communicates internally amongst teams and clients….you even download your 1099 from it at tax time. It is, in essence, the MA unfranchise owner’s “I.T. system”. Any business owner in the world will tell you that $20 bucks a month ALL IN ($240 per year) for an I.T. system, one that is kept up to date FOR YOU, and is hardly ever “down” isn’t just a bargain….it’s highway robbery, except its the distributors doing the stealing and MA Corporate being Santa Claus.

“In addition, you are expected to purchase hundreds of dollars of product from Market America at the start, and ongoingly to keep up your personal business volume. I couldn’t find this information on the company website which appropriately focuses more on the retail customer than the distributor, but general startup costs seem to be around $700. All these costs are part and parcel of having a “business” not a job, but they can lead to ‘scam’ claims or other issues if not explained clearly”

Accurate again. The initial product (buy) has two very important points:

A.) If one were to open a shoe store, one would need some shoes. If one were to open a pizzeria, one would need some dough, some sauce, and some cheese. It’s inventory. Inventory bought at “wholesale cost” which can be converted into sales and generate a profit, which could easily offset the $130 “set up” fee (subscription fee).

B.) Not everyone is a sales professional. Should those who aren’t be prohibited from running a business that sells a product or service? No. The MA system is set up so that the NON-sales people have every bit of a chance of success as the “sales” people do and here’s how, and why. Again, not everyone “likes” to “sell”, and even fewer are good at it. But EVERYBODY can and does TALK and inform others about their good experiences with products and services. Movies, restaurants, music downloads. MUCH of what each of us BUYS in life, we are initially exposed to by a referral, or we seek out a referral FOR before spending our money. It’s the exact reason a forum like this one exists….before someone were to even BECOME a distributor, they will seek out referrals of people who either ARE or WERE at one time, Distributors. We’re human beings, and human nature is to more often than not look to a guinea pig who has tried something FIRST. So again, NOT everyone can sell a given product……but EVERYBODY can and does TALK to others about products they like. <- THERE is the MA sales strategy. Put out good products, and let word of mouth do the selling. "Built on product, powered by people" is the tagline for a reason.

Now, there would be a fatal flaw in the system if the distributors weren't required to buy what essentially amounts to a minimum amount of products on a regular basis, to try, experience, fall in love with. The question was asked earlier, "If you weren't a distributor, would you still buy the products?" Great, pertinent question. I'll give you my answer: Yes, many I would continue to buy, some I would never go a day without, and then there are others I would never buy and never use. But there are products I WOULD buy regardless of being a distributor. The REAL issue, however, is not whether or not I would buy them…..the REAL issue is that I would have NEVER EVEN TRIED THEM if they were just sitting on the shelf in Walmart waiting to be bought. Someone HAD TO introduce them to me and me to them. I had to try them. I had to see for myself, if they were worth my valuable hard-earned money. The ones that proved themselves to be worthy of my purchase, I'm loyal to….the ones that haven't I'm not loyal to. But the ones in the first category are the ones I'm willing to talk about. THEY are the ones I'll put my reputation and credibility as a friend, relative, and business associate behind.

So, with 2500-3000 "MA" products available, very few people are going to "experiment" with them (and their money along with it), in order to determine what works for us. On a monthly basis, I buy stuff I like, and certain things I really can't live without. <-again, on the shelf at Walmart or GNC, I wouldn't even notice them, certainly wouldn't spend money to try them UNLESS someone told me about them FIRST. And, if that WERE the case….someone "told" me about this "great" product at Walmart, and I bought it….and loved it… Walmart wins (they get my business), I win (I have a new product that enhances some part of my life), and the person who told me about it, gets NOTHING. JR, through MA has provided people a business opportunity for people who do nothing more than "tell" people about products they use and love. He has systemized a way to MONETIZE the "referral", and we all refer things, and accept referrals on things every day.

I will be highly interested if you can get back to me on MA
Thanks
Veer.

@AJ: Actually AJ – I have been on holiday this week, and just popped my head in and it seems like you have taken over this blog post.

Not nice.

You have some good info, both stuff I agree with and stuff I very much don’t, but this is all too much.

I’ll have a think about how to rearrange this – the simplest is just to delete it all – but let me know what you would suggest. Seems like you should set up your own blog BTW.

Interested in Alabama. Looking for a sponsor who can be a mentor of a 21 year veteran of specialty retail management & sales.

@Dr Martin Russell:

Russell, this is YOUR blog, so I would suggest you do whatever you think is best with it, and delete whatever you don’t like. I am but a guest here, just like everyone else. But if open and unfounded “scam” claims about my livelihood and that of others on my team who have partnered with me in good faith are going to be able to live here for days upon end for the entire internet to see without being properly challenged (especially a forum with such a high google ranking – my compliments on that, btw), you can be sure I’ll address them as I see them.

BTW, I do have my own blog. The MA detractors don’t even show up there anymore because every flaw in the program they think that they can exploit is rapidly addressed.

I am, however, curious to know which of my comments you do not agree with? Or is it just my comprehensive coverage of the benefits of the program in the face of the detractors? If I’ve made a point that anyone can prove inaccurate, including yourself, I’d love to hear about it.

@AJ:

TYou are missign the point completely, and your defnse of this cult is reprehsnible. OPC-3 is bad product, all you need to do is talk to people who are sick from it, I met 7 more just this week! I am not wasting time with links, be an adult about this please. Be balanced and fair – you are twisting things to make MA look good and quite simply – they are not.

I am trying to warn people of a very serious issue out there, and you come in here trying to discredit me? That is ridiculous, people need to be aware of the very real and very serious risks out there with these MA products.

They also need to be aware that there is no way to be profitable with MA unless you push their lame products – online shopping will never make you profitable as they allege – the commission structure is way, way too heavily tilted in favor of their gay little products. I have had 77 emails just over the past week from people responding to our blogs thanking us for helping them make INFORMED, HONEST and BALANCED decisions, since I have been there I know this business inside and out and can explain the pitfalls to people without the “shine” and the smiles and the gayness you see at these meetings. I ask people if they want to invest so much time to trying to get enough volume generated with these products go to these gay meetings. Or to recruit enough people to get the needed volume of 4800 bv per month to be profitable, and for what? A hope that they keep buying it every month? ()They say MA is about building teams, that is such nonsense like all the rest of it, people don’t want to sink money into this stuff every month. So that em,ans you need to sell it to someone else,, like businesses, and good luck with that!) Of course they say no, who wouldn’t. It is nauseating beyond belief that people act this way. We help people get around get around the hype from the kool-aid drinkers like yourself. I am a businessman, and don’t have time for cults that act like children at events they charge you for, to push ills and powders. I mean please.

@AJ: It is more that you have written comments longer than my original post, and certainly more numerous (I count 15 of them).

If you could point people to your blog where you mention these details then that could help greatly, and get you better traffic than your current link (ala ‘attraction marketing’ as I mention before.)

As to what I disagree with, there are 2 things in particular.

1. An unfranchise IS a multi-level marketing business model, just with a less stigmatized name than what you think MLM is. For me MLM is an accurate description of the inherent value of this model compared to all other businesses. The multi-level is exactly what you love about MA too.

2. Your comments about the money in MA being in the “BUILDING OF TEAMS” actually feeds directly in to what “MA are Crooks” is saying, and the issue of selling distributorships v products which is at the heart of the concerns I point to in http://www.carefulcash.com/what-is-mlm-really/ All MLMs have the most leverage in building a team, but if the only way to be in profit is to recruit, then there is a problem because the maths of 1 gets ‘team of 100′ who each get a ‘team of 100′ etc is unviable.

As to the comments about OPC-3, that is not an issue I cover. This blog is about marketing.

@MA are Crooks: Please give us your name, and/or link to one of the ‘blogs’ you mention. Thanks.

Again Russell, your gentleman MA are crooks is calling what I do for a living “reprehensible” out on the open internet, on a highly ranked search no less, with no basis other than “I met 7 this week”, and I’m the one that’s outta line for writing too much in defense of what I do, and whom I’m partnered with in it?

You’re right….time to fire up my own block again. Mind if I post a link here??

Gay little products?? Are you serious? Dr. Stephen Lamm a world renowned doctor has been on every major news channel and is the house doc on The View and has written many many books on the overwhelming benefit of OUR OPC-3. This supplement has more double-blind scientific studies than anything out there. ” I met 7 this week?” You are so unbelievable. Our company has a very prestigious division called the Nutrametrix educational institute that is so accredited that docs (thousands of them) go through our company to get their continuing ed credits and then set up wellness programs in their offices with our incredible products. I know of NO other company that has accreditations like that. I have literally hundreds of people who have had their lives completely and positively changed by our “gay little products”. Do the research. Scottie Pippen is endorsing our Prime Joint Product. I suppose he knows nothing either. Do you really think a company that has been around since 1992 could have products especially supplements that could do harm and stay on the market? Not a chance in today’s world. Makes me wonder what company you own or work for…possibly a distant OPC-3 want to be? That product changed my life and the life of my child and the business model that you say is impossible has been bringing in a 6 figure residual income for 10 years. The “serious risk” as you say is in pretty much every job in corporate America today. You say you’ve been there?? I have a hard time believing that. I was a single mom of 3 and made it big in this business making $10,000 a month with only a few handfuls of qualified people. Obviously, I wouldn’t have chosen you to be on my team. I look for coachable people who are positive thinkers who are looking for a serious Plan B while they are working on their Plan A. I am very proud to say I have many wonderful people that I work with who have goals and are achieving them!

You say you’re a businessman. I can’t imagine doing business with anyone that is as short sighted as yourself who doesn’t do their research and clearly knows nothing really about Market America. Sorry.

@KB: Just be careful not to fight exaggeration with exaggeration.

“This supplement has more double-blind scientific studies than anything out there.” Actually that title goes probably goes to one of the pain medications, or placebos which are studied in EVERY double-blind study by definition.

Business and entrepreneurship is one of the few remaining fields where you are not required to have any registration or compulsory training. It takes all types.

HI there Dr. Russell. I was referring to the generic name for the OPC which is termed Pycnogenol. I was only referring to supplements and not medications in general. Thanks.

@Dr Martin Russell:

Martin – This screen name is 32 people, so you will not get any of our names. The blogs have been shit down as we ar eno preparing class action legal proeedings. MA is going to get hiot like a cionder block in the face in the near future – for a varoety of illegal activities and making people sick with their products. This “business” is deplorable in their conduct, and we have received over 330 responses from people nationwide who fell victiom to the same BS. There will be several suits filed, and if I were you I would disasscoaite yoursdelf form MA entirely.

AJ – we are prioviding a public service – educating people to the sham that is MA. The company misleads people, they take people’s money by alleging the business is profitable from online shopping commissions and it is not. If you do it for a living, I highly recommend you get out before things hit the fan next year, much action is coming down the pike next year. This MA web portal silliness is very new to them, and over the last two months dozens of people have filed complaints and petitons which are now translating into action. I expect that to continue grwoing as people are getting eductaed as to the reality of ths situation – which is they need to push pills and powders to make a profit and that is NOT what they signed up for! Not on any level.

The issues with MA are very serious, very real, and people need to be aware of them – by people like us who have actually done it for years and are professional business analysts for over 20 years.

What is wrong with educating people to the lies and the cultish behavior at MA? I received 387 comments last week THANKING me for educating people so they could make FAIR, REAL, EDUCATED, and BALANCED decisions based on data from objective people – not data from MA members who smile all the time and act weird. Read this board – even ex-MA employees talk about their highly questionable tactics and cult-like culture.

So while we appreciate you do this for a livng and you are OK with the whole Amway model, which is what MA is and you are defensive, we would like you to be fair and honest with everyone here, and not try to hinder people posting real experiences. Just because you like pushing product doesn’t mean others havent had bad experiences, we need you to understand that please. For evey one person I have met in 9 years who likes MA, I can give you 50 who got ripped-off. Now MA misleads people with this whole shopping thing and it is a disgrace.

What is wrong with letting people know that there is zero profit to be made from online shopping through MA? That is thier hook, and it is simply never going to happen. The only wayto be profitable is to push their pills and powders and I have hundreds of people thanking us for letting them know that. And I don’t see you disagreeing with that very important point.

What is wrong with helping people with real data? If we didn’t do this more people would be sick from their products, unhappy, wasting time and out of money they probably need. What is wrong with preventing that? Absolutely nothing. In fact we get hundreds of comments thanking us for doing this public service. There are too many negative experiences to ignore AJ, and people need to know about it so they don’t get sucked in too. You can appreciate that, right?

@MA are Crooks: Okay – between you and AJ let’s give space to others here on this post. Both of you are actually very much closer in your view of MA’s underlying structure. As I said to AJ, time to put your comments somewhere and link to them from here.

“Read this board” – which one? Do you mean this post? In fact someone posing as an MA employee tried to post strong criticism of MA here, and it has been removed. It was not appreciated by me, or by the real person themselves.

“In fact we get hundreds of comments thanking us for doing this public service.” – Okay, point us to the site where we can verify this. Where are you educating people? Where are they sending their thanks? This seems like a valuable service my readers would like to know about.

My wife has been in MA for 3 years and I wish she would see what a waste of time and money it has been. It almost breaks my heart to see her misled and taken advantage of like this. She’s a college educated, intelligent woman, but just doesn’t see what scam it is.

In the 3 years, she’s spent at least $10-$12K and has maybe made $3k. The few people she was able to recruit have quit so she now makes nothing.

But don’t take my word for it. Look at MA’s Annual report, and the bonuses they pay. Divide that amount by 180,000 (the number of UFOs) and then factor out the few at the top making millions. Nobody in their right mind would see that as a legit business opportunity.

I know JR likes to say that a traditional business is a pyramid. Ahhh…sorry buddy. The folks at the bottom of the pyramid in a traditional business at least get paid for their efforts. And…this is a big AND…the guy at the top of the pyramid in a traditional business makes money by the people below him producing his company’s products, NOT BUYING his company’s products.

@ps65: I’m sorry to hear how your wife has gone so far.

This is not a pleasant situation, for you or for her. This is CarefulCash and I realize a business needs start up capital, but it also needs to see a learning curve.

I’d suggest three things.

1. Get her to treat MA as you would any other business, ie have her write out and show you a business plan with cashflow projections that outlines how she plans to turn this around.

2. Make sure her plans include the real stats on MA, as well realistic conversion numbers for her own performance. If in doubt, refer to some of the comments above to double check she isn’t being overly optimistic.

3. If she won’t write out a plan, she isn’t serious about learning from her mistakes and this is a red flag. If she realizes she needs to have a big rethink, then this is where I suggest she starts:
http://www.carefulcash.com/want-an-online-money-maker-pros-cons-of-the-4-fundamental-strategies/

@Vickie: Dear Vickie, A friend of mine in Florida saw your blog and called me. Where are you in Alabama? and are you still looking for a sponsor? What kind of retail management experience do you have?

I hope you never delete any of these comments. I had a pleasent time reading each and every one of them til 4 in the morning last night.

@angie: You notice my exact problem – hidden in the sheer volume is lots of good info. Too much to handle, but too good to waste.

Martin we are sorry, there was a typo in our last post. We meant to day the blogs were “shut” down, not sh*t down as was posted – as that data is being used in preparation of various actions. Those were the sites we were running ourselves. Like I said about 30-some people use this screen name, and as for the existing sites I would need to ask one of them for a url. I just see the daily reports in my email. yesterday we had 176 comments from people researching MA thanking our panel for their expert, qualified advice as people who actually know what MA is about.

Suffice to say, this whole MA thing needs to be avoided at all costs and hopefully the growing amount of real data being made available will help the many actions being planned be successful and MA gets shut down as a result. That would be great to see, that way more people getting misled and lied-to can be avoided. Their tactics are deplorable, at best. As mentioned above they pay themselves alot of money for misleading people. There are way too many stories like the one’s I have mentioned, with people getting sick from OPC 3, and getting lied-to about what the business is, and what PS65′s wife is going through. Of course some MA kool-aid drinker like the lost souls above acting like 5 year-olds over some retail sales ranking (while neglecting to mention that nobody is earning any commission checks from retails sales, so who even would care? The point is profit and if you aren’t earning any commissions from sales at partner stores, then who cares what the rank is? It is irrelevant. In addition, far too many of these “sales” are MA products!) will jump in here and say his wife doesn’t know what she is doing and is on a bad team or needs to follow a plan. That is all nonsense. There is no plan, as we can all verify. They tell you to find your own plan once you get in. “choose an area of the business” and similar babbling. It’s all such garbage.

The MA business model prohibits success long-term because of the commission structure is so sickeningly weighted in favor of their products. You missed that in your initial review of MA, and that is a critical point for people to understand. You learn that when you actually work the “business” as we did. We are professionals and some of us are business analysts, and to call MA a business is very much a stretch. It’s an MLM organization, a pyramid, not a business by any means. Like PS65 said – any organization that makes you buy something is not a legit business. Which is why so many people are waking up to this scam now. The commissions are only earned from pushing their garbage products on people. And worse, hope they get hooked on this junk for the rest of their life. This is what MA calls a “residual” income, which is a lie also. A residual income is this people: legally binding documents guaranteeing annual income. Like sales agreements, maintenance contracts, things of that nature. Again – legally bound agreements ensuring that cash will be there every year. The fact they call this whole little scam a residual is an immediate red flag to us intelligent business people. That told us real quick that these MA folks are serious clowns. Because it so obviously is not a real residual.

We appreciate you trying to help PS65′s wife, but it’s a waste of time. Your approach would be sound if dealing with a legit business. But this isn’t so your advice unfortunately does not really apply. You mention doing a plan – you make it sound so simple. Again – the MA business model is profit-prohibitive. It’s real simple Martin – you push their products on at least 48 people a month, minimum. Period. That is the only way to be in the black. You need 4800 BV every 30 days to get enough commission to cover your product purchase they make you do each month. So you need 48 people below you in the pyramid buying 100 BV worth of product each month. This is Amway folks – it is NOT an e-commerce or shopping company and you will never make a profit from online sales commissions. That little guy who wears the shades indoors who started this thing is an Amway guy, so that should tell you alot. It’s all about their garbage products and making as many people as possible buy it.

Keep up the good work Martin. I see alot of people benefiting from the REAL and TRUTHFUL information being posting here and around the world so people can make educated decisions about this thing.

@MA are Crooks: I look forward to more information that you talk about from the websites coming out into the light of the internet then.

It is disappointing that a court case should hide this information. So people will have to decide based on mere second-hand words.

“The MA business model prohibits success long-term because of the commission structure is so sickeningly weighted in favor of their products.” Tou are correct that I didn’t mention this in the article. I put in the comments later (using a more moderate tone of words than you did.)

And in this last comment you seem to be implying that all MLM is a ‘scam’. A position which I address elsewhere but is different from the idea that MA specifically is a scam.

By the way, I would regard any company that sold shonky products as a scam – doesn’t need an MLM structure for that! [Even a few big pharma companies come to mind.]

I am not sure where “MA are crooks” gets his information but I highly doubt he was ever a partner with Market America and if he was he certainly wasn’t trained and he didn’t know nor understand the business he was in. I have been making a 6 figure income with Market America for many many years and when I hit $10,000 a month I barley had 100 people on each of my 2 (yes, I said 2 because this ISN’t MLM) legs. Those aren’t “MY direct partners either but are people of people”. Our whole business model is based on each Unfranchise Owner having 10-15 customers (not business partners) total…not 48. I truly have about 15 customers total. The numbers to make it in this company are so minimal. It is just about being consistent.
I absolute love my products so I do buy way way more than I am “required”. The amount required to sell is $200 every 3 months. That is so minimal. Your numbers are so far off. You say it is not “residual”. I went through a family tragedy for 2 years and did not work the business but I still made a 6 figure income for those years. Is that NOT residual?? Would your business pay you if you weren’t there? I have been with the business for 13 years as a single mom of 3 and this has been the biggest blessing hands down in my life. Because I was in Amway once (although I didn’t make ANY money) does that make me an “amway woman?” Does that mean that I could never go on to be successful at anything else? Your comments are very condescending and plain ridiculous.
You call yourself a professional but you don’t speak like a professional. If are products are so bad why are doctors flooding to us to get the “most potent nutriceuticals on the market”? I have personally seen hundreds and hundreds of people’s lives completely changed for the better because of our wonderful products. I had migraines horribly and OPC-3 helped to subside those. My son was on tons of mediation for his asthma and breathing treatments daily and his life was totally changed and he was able to get off all his meds and his treatments. I have never ever had any get sick on our products. My mom is 72 and her docs are totally amazed by her labs and are interested in our products because they say her heart is so healthy and her colon looked like that of a 30 year old.
One distributor in my group passed me up in the first year and has gone on to make more than a million dollars with the company. We don’t have breakaways like in MLM’s and I will always make 100% of the volume she produces. Since we don’t work on levels it didn’t matter how far down in my organization she is.

Market America is a fabulous business and has an A+ rating with the Better Business Bureau. They are growing like crazy and while other companies are downsizing, Market America has continued to add 80 new IT jobs in the past year alone to their corporate offices in Greensboro, NC. Of course our competition doesn’t like us…we’re amazing!

Thanks for all this info. I had a sit down with 2 members of MA a few nights ago. It started out very interesting and exciting. Lots of PowerPoint slides with quotes from Bill Gates and Robert Kyosaki but after an hour, when I asked how much it would cost, How do I make money? The usual business questions, I got the run around. When I asked if IVB was $1 per point or what was a equal comparison and they said no and would not give me an answer that made much sense, I realized it was a pyramid scheme. I was disappointed but, I did learn a lot from the presentation.

Its all about the selling job. These guys are professions sellers, I understand why some people get duped.

I really don’t understand why they couldn’t give a financial commission to someone who brings a sale to Best buy or Apple on there site. If they paid me a commission I would be hustling my butt bringing people to MA, but doing it for some type of points system no thanks.

Anyways thanks for confirming my initial opinion.

@ps65:
Assuming your wife spent $10,000 equally over 3 years that would be $278 per month. I’ve only been spending $100 per month. What did your wife do?

@Edward:
Your question about financial commission is one of marketing, legal and business in general. I am by no means an expert but the following is to my knowledge and I certainly welcome any corrections. Partner Stores participate by seeing how much traffic goes through the system and offers a certain percentage. Best Buy, like all the other partner stores, can only offer points and not cash to a non-employee for referring purchases. Even employees may only accumulate points and get a cheque at year end. Does this make more sense? Regarding IBV (not IVB) and BV for that matter, the rate is not the same across the board. Different products and Partner Stores offer different rates. Amway’s rate, on the other hand, is $2.90 per PV although I think their Store Partners offer different rates as well. Was this the runaround or the answer that didn’t make sense to you?
Talk about online shopping, MA does do a pretty darn good job. Not only with the number of Store Partners participating (over 3500 in North America alone), but also new stuff like barcode scan and the ShopBox app on Facebook. Hope you didn’t mind my enthusiasm here, Martin. Thanks for running this website

@MA are Crooks:
Self-qualifying phrases such as “us intelligent business people” was my red flag to everything you said. It is very unprofessional. Let me guess, too much partying at student rez last night?

By the way, there are only two ways a manufacturer can get its products out to customers: through their own store or through a 3rd party. A 3rd party distributor, if retail or wholesale, would buy, mark up and resell. John Doe is just another type of 3rd party where he doesn’t necessarily have to buy and resell. Same as consignments or auctions. John Doe just has to be able to refer. From the point of view of the manufacturer, there are advantages and risks for all these choices. The quality of products should not be evaluated based on how its manufacturer chooses to distribute.

Okay. To all normal readers…

Did you get confused by some of all that?

I sure as heck did.

So realize that this is exactly why a new person to MA (or any MLM) needs to stick to the basics eg “What do I need to do to earn my first $100?”

As to the rest, I’ll let multiple 6-figure earners who strangely wish to remain anonymous speak for themselves, and I will leave my medical comments out of this. But just to stick to the concepts of the original post:

1. MLM = multi-level payment plan ie paid on the work of those you bring in AND those they bring in too. On this criteria MA is MLM.

2. 100 people on two legs is a decent amount of recruiting and time spent building a downline, so that takes more than luck it takes some skill. I recommend everyone learn those skills because MA is the same company whether you earn $100 or $100,000.

3. Edward. MA (or any MLM) can be sold as a pyramid scheme ie “Ignore the products, just find others who want to make money and sign them up!” Steer clear of people who promote like that, for sure.

4. James Tong – My pleasure. And yes ps65′s wife is doing more than just buying MA minimum orders to lose that much money. That’s the bigger problem. Not getting the proper marketing training.

Just to clarify something here. With the MarketAmerica (ie: “MA”) business venture, you cannot make a penny just by sponsoring people. Products have to be bought, whether it is one of the exclusive products or from a Partner Store. MarketAmerica is part of the Direct Selling industry but is also an Internet Marketing company. Its method of product distribution is through a form of MLM using a binary-based system for compensation. Also, you do not need 100 people on both legs because you can open up multiple BDC’s. Martin, I thought you are in the MA business but did I assume wrong? Using the pipeline analogy that Kiyosaki that spoke about, it is like opening up multiple pipelines at different villages.

@James Tong:

Like most MA’rs she spent a lot more than $100/month on personal use of their products. Heck, $100 is what, a bottle of OPC3 and a bottle of Aloe? Then throw in fees for PatLive, trips, fees to sell websites, etc. There ain’t a UFO on the planet only spending $100/month.

Even if it was only $100/month. Multiply $100 x 180,000 UFO’s and you’ll see where MA makes its money. From its “employees.” There isn’t a measurable amount of MA branded products being purchased by real customers.

@James Tong: Hi James, I’m in an MLM that I won’t mention here, but I’m not in MA, no. I train people on their online marketing.

The pipeline story is very apt for network marketing, but unfortunately I can’t remember which of Robert’s books I read that story in. Can anyone help?

@ps65:
I’ve heard that 180,000 x $100 = profit thing before. Guess how much Costco makes from its membership fees? But this is not Costco. You and your wife need to review yourselves and the way you did this business. I am assuming you were actually a UFO and not a competitor. By the way, have you seen MA’s financial statements?
There are lots of posers online who display various degrees of civility in their words. Some talk in an almost disturbing manner that I’m almost concerned for their psychological state. Oh well, it takes all sorts of people to make the world. A competitor can post an innocent-looking question on YahooAnswers, login as another user to answer that question, and then close the question so as not enable anybody to post any corrective comments. Hey, it’s a competitive world, right?

@Dr Martin Russell:
I heard the pipeline story from the audio version of “Rich Dad Poor Dad”.

@James Tong: I think I heard it there too – that explains why I couldn’t see it in the books.

@ps65:
If you think there isn’t a UFO on the planet that’s only spending $100/mth, we must be on different planets. I really wonder who you and your wife talked to in the business for the three years that she was in it. Sure I also know people spending more than $100 but they are netting more than that since their minimum cheque amount is $300. But you already know that, right?

By the way, one can check out Buzzillions for real product reviews if our “public service” guy here (aka: MA are crooks) thinks the OPC3 made so many people sick.

@James Tong:

She’s still in the business, and actually on her way to another wasted evening at a business presentation meeting as I type. I say wasted ‘cuz she’s going without a guest, putting on her “leadership team” name badge and wasting her time.

Yes, I’ve looked at MA’s financial report. Trust me, nobody in MA wants anyone not in MA to see it. Tell you what….I’ll give you a challenge: Multiply whatever number you think the average UFO spends on MA products each year for personal use X 180,000 and post up here how much you think that is. Then, take the bonus amount MA pays per year and divide that by 180,000 and tell us if those numbers make sense to you. And don’t try to throw in the income for “estimated” retail profits because we both know that’s a tiny amount not worth measuring.

@ps65: I wonder how those figures would differ from other MLM company’s, because I made a list of the ones that I have Income Disclosure Statements.

I am really sorry for responding earlier. Originally I was going to wait a week before responding to your “challenge” but then I got caught up with other things and it became over a month. Anyway I couldn’t find 2008 and 2009 financials but I have ones from other years and have only listed selected numbers which I believe are relevant to the discussion. Martin, I hope u don’t mind the numbers. It is for the sake of knowledge.

For those who don’t know anything about accounting or finance, you may skip the rest of this post.
***************

First, I assume the following two definitions:
Net Sales = net sales of products, events, subscription fee, brochures, etc
Cost of Goods Sold = net cost of products, events, system subscription, brochures, etc

2005:
Net Sales = $210,514,535
COGS = $61,650,235
Gross Profit = $148,864,300
Commission Expense = $79,466,377 (% of GP = 53.4%)
Net Income = $35,127,520

2006:
Net Sales = $249,210,874
COGS = $71,077,490
Gross Profit = $178,133,384
Commission Expense = $96,193,478 (% of GP = 54.0%)
Net Income = $32,848,928

2007:
Net Sales = $275,266,193
COGS = $83,261,396
Gross Profit = $192,004,797
Commission Expense = $105,477,684 (% of GP = 54.9%)
Net Income = $37,691,709

2010:
Net Sales = $297,473,874
COGS = $96,298,785
Gross Profit = $201,175,089
Commission Expense = $111,275,035 (% of GP = 55.3%)
Net Income = $25,557,132

Current Assets = $99,129,796
Current Liabilities = $24,252,848
Cash & Cash Equivalent = $76,597,118
Current Ratio = 4.09
Quick Ratio (cash, cash equiv, interest rec, A/R, advances) = 3.36
I don’t know what the industry average for those ratios are so I can’t really comment on whether those numbers are good or bad. Maybe it’s too much cash, but then maybe that’s standard practice in the industry. Someone else more familiar with this stuff may know.
*****************

Now your “challenge”:

Amount spent on products per year for the average UFO: $300 x 12 mth = $3600
Multiply by 180,000 = $648,000,000
If you compare that with Net Sales, clearly the monthly average (for 2010) is only $137 max.

I dunno what percentage is the bonus if you are talking about the $500 management bonus but let’s give you the benefit of the doubt and say that a very unrealistic 50% of UFO’s get the bonus. That means 90,000 (180,000 x 50%) times $500 equalling $45,000,000. Divide that by 180,000 is $250. If it was only 5% who get bonus, then it would be $25. There. I just did the calculation as you requested and I am not understanding what you’re trying to get at. Why am I dividing by 180,000 anyways? Not everybody gets that bonus.

Btw, MarketAmerica actually encourages UFO’s to use financials as part of the marketing effort. It says that right in the UnFranchise system. If you didn’t know that before for the past 3 years, now you do.

@James Tong: Interesting figures.

Can you give links for where you found those, and for “MarketAmerica actually encourages UFO’s to use financials as part of the marketing effort.”? Thanks.

@Dr Martin Russell:
All those figures came from financials which I downloaded from a distributor training website which I believe needs password. However, a simple Google search revealed this:
http://images.marketamerica.com/lib/downloads/PHL/corporate/AnnualReport.pdf

This is the 2009 Financials so now you can include that to the numbers above

As for the encouragement, here is a screenshot from within the Unfranchise system:
http://members.shaw.ca/tongster.vanstar/marketamerica.jpg
I probably also got the idea from the audios and Career Manual but I’m not going to sift through them to reference them for you. Why do I feel like I’m doing all the research for people? I’m not going to do this anymore as my time is better spent doing result-producing activities. Those who are already in the business should know better. And those who are not……. well, Martin, I suppose you never actually met a MarketAmerica person?

Doctor ,,,
My story is my daughter in law sold MA and their Antioxidents to my wife ( for me ) and today I started a research on them… You made the most sense

“Snake Oil” is defined as a cure for everthing and if I ever saw Snake Oil it is this Antioxidents stuff which claims cures for hair loss, heart problems, blood, waist fat or in a word everything…and I hope for infection of the leg ( celulitis ) which will make my wife very happy. Be nice if it worked on a 70 year old problem of Epilepsy or even my Colin cancer but I don’t have any faith in snake oil..NONE
Don’t worry Doctor I will stick with Dilantin ( does work ) and that six month once a week shots given at the local Cancer Center seems to have worked

I am sending her your “Pros and Cons” on the hope she isn’t drawn into a financial mess.
Those kids don’t need it.

If you feel this letter would help anyone then publish…Otherwise I prefer you not to..

Sincerely GG (Grouchy Grandpa title given by a grandson who visited at a hospital and asked his mother “why is grandpa grouchy ?”

First the word is spelt “antioxidant”. Second, it is important to note that antioxidants are not and never were claimed to be cures for anything in the sense of a prescription drug. Correct me if I’m wrong Martin but my understanding is that only prescriptive drugs are evaluated and approved by FDA. There may be some pharmaceuticals that are but over-the-counter nutritional supplements are generally not. It takes years and even decades for certain drugs to have been thoroughly researched before they can be placed on the market with the intent of playing a major role in the process of curing an ailment and only a licensed medical practioner is qualified to prescribe them. Everybody’s physical and health condition is different and antioxidants, while generally are good for people, will have different effects on people’s bodies.
Some people do get hyped up about supplements claiming this and that. Some claims may be exaggerated but I would think most are true. After all, most people want to enjoy good health and longevity and many a company and businessman seek to capitalize on this. As a result, there will be some shady companies and some trustworthy companies. As mentioned a few posts back (scroll up), one can simply go to a review website such as Buzzillions where there are hundreds of reviews on OPC3 alone. Without going into detail, from what I’ve seen about 90% of the reviews are positive and most of the negative ones are actually based on misunderstanding.

@Jim Midgley: Glad I could give you some straight talk. And all the best with the Dilantin – it is not without its own side effects but I’m glad it works for you. ‘Snake oil’ comes in many forms, including prescription ones.

No kids need a financial mess, but they all need a message of hope – and learning quality entrepreneurial skills is a proven path.

@James Tong: “… as my time is better spent doing result-producing activities.”

This is what I say to my downline, yes.

I have some friends that got into Market America and started badgering me into doing the same. Well, after three months of hearing them rave about the products, OPC-3 in particular, I decided to order a bottle and give it a try. I’m on my fourth month of taking it and I haven’t felt this good since I was back in high school.
I’m forty now.
I decided to join a month ago because after looking at it, it seems to be about the best MLM out there. I have to say though that they hate being called an MLM.
I started a blog to post on my progress. http://thebetterlifeproject.com
I’m going to be posting honest progress from the inside out.
I have some other side business other than Market America that I’m currently doing, so if it fails or doesn’t work, I’m not to worried about it.
My wife had been involved in several MLM ventures over the years and I always criticized her about wasting her time.
After looking at the other ones she was involved in (Herbalife, Arbonne, a local food distributor) there seems to be something different to Market America. It may work, if I work it.
The key I believe to Market America is in their Isotonix line. You can get cash back on using the right credit card. I don’t think the magic is in the shopping or cash back.
This is a great article and discussion. I’m going to bookmark it to watch it’s progression.

Thanks,
Kevin

@Kevin: I agree that even though Market America offers an ‘online portal’ for lots of products, the best profit margin is on its own line. All the best at finding other customers who get the great results you have found with it.

@Kevin:
Anything only works if you work it. Good that you pointed it out. Avon worked because they have stuff people want and housewives are detail-oriented to provide good customer service. McDonald’s franchise model worked because the stuff they provided appealed to the average American family and pocket. If I bought a franchise and didn’t make any money, guess whose fault is it? If Proactiv paid Justin Bieber to advertise (or Rolex paying Pierce Brosnan) and they didn’t make any money, would it be because paying celebrities for product endorsement doesn’t work? There is a tendency for people to blame on a system when something goes wrong. After all, it is easier to see somebody else’s back than your own.

MarketAmerica is not only a product brokerage company but is also an internet marketing company. The success on any direct-selling company depends on its products as well as compensation plan. The Isotonix line is just one of the many product lines that people use to build their UnFranchise business on. Motives would be another example. Webcenters is yet another example. And the Nutrametrix too. And so on.

That was just the direct-selling aspect of the UnFranchise model. For MarketAmerica, there is also the online portal for UFO’s. Also, do take note of barcode scanning and the ShopBox app for Facebook. These are all powerful social shopping tools. MarketAmerica UFO’s do not only depend on retailing in order to make money. If that was to be the case, it is no different than most of the other MLM’s out there and is also no different than another sales job. Please do not overlook any of these things.
Btw, check out this recent article @ Internet Retailer:
http://www.internetretailer.com/2011/12/27/web-merchants-expect-bigger-roi-technology

And this one:
http://www.internetretailer.com/2011/06/07/market-america-adds-bar-code-scanning-and-deal-locator-app

If you are just starting out and already thinking things like “if it fails, I’m not too worried”, then good luck. Doing a progress blog is not a bad idea in my opinion but do keep in mind that it will potentially be seen by all sorts of people with all sorts of views and preconceptions. I assume that what you are really trying to do is document how well you can work the system and not actually how well the system itself works. Therefore if you don’t follow what the Career Manual or the audios (eg: Andrew Weissman for example) suggest, you will more likely spread confusion and misconceptions. On the other hand, you will be able to read back, review what you have done and learn from experience.

Going to Miami next month?

@James Tong: Fair comment about a Progress blog.You will learn more from your mistakes than your successes, but I agree that people should be careful about being public about them before they have the answers.

I like the Colin Powell advice I heard – “Only discuss your problems with someone who can help you solve them.”

My daughter and I are looking into Market America. This blog has been extremely informative!
Thank you for keeping the site honest. I will utilize all comments written here for the success of my business. Thank you Dr. Russell and AJ … I look forward to meeting each of you soon. I am meeting with my well qualified sponsor this afternoon with my Daughter to begin our ‘Success Plan … followed by … working our Plan the MA Way guided by those who are already successful’! Thank you again for your diligence
!

@M. J. Zak: All the best then, and be in touch with how you go!

k2,

Hi, I was wondering ifyou might be able to mentor me along with my other ma sponsors, I will be joining soon because as a single mom healed of anemia through isotonix multi with iron and opc3 I want to bring others the healing I have had through these incredible products. I also am a single mom working full time and its hard to come up with start up but am believing with my passion and others help I can make it! there are so many awesome testimonies between me and my friends and family just with the isotonix! I tried every iron under the sun the medical field gave me liquid iron, iron shots, iron through grits, and iron pans, etc , nothing worked but isotonix, brought my iron level from 3 and 5 to a 12! and didn’t even taste bad! anyways, if you can give me any advice I am very open!

Hi everyone, When it comes to comparing MA to other “Franchises”, some points are not being addressed. I will touch on only one. McDonald’s for example is a franchise that HAS A PRODUCT (BIG MAC, or Shakes, or Delicious Fries) that people NOT ONLY WANT, but NEED and also CRAVE. We need to eat right? McDonalds provides stuff to eat and then stuff to drink that goes with it. When you eat, you feel good, your stomach feels good, and you get energy to go around your day right? That’s a “true Franchise”.

So, I know yea supplements/vitamins are needed to an extent for the human body, but Tell me, if you take supplements, does it solve a MAIN need? (Yea yea, it solves a MINOR need of balancing your body intake/diet, but its not a MAIN need). Take only “supplements” all day when you’re hungry, and don’t eat say a McDonalds burger when you’
re hungry (or whatever else you would normally have eaten from McDonalds), and tell me if your day will go right. Your stomach will churn and ache you all day!

Now onto MA (the “Franchise” like McDonalds), Do people NEED and CRAVE OPC-3? Do People CRAVE Isotonix-Multivitamins? … Well, Maybe they want it; MAYBE (and that’ usually because somebody [a MA Partner/Distributor or someone linked somehow] gives you some bogus story that ooooh wow I took it and I feel GREAT.. ["GREAT/AWESOME etc" is what they always teach their Partner/UFOs to say] … DUH! OPC-3 (and other Isotonix) has some ingredients that WILL make you feel good, just like all other supplements do too , but that does not mean you/I want it? I mean even at the RIDICULOUS price it goes for (compared to similar product) why would I want it, when I can get cheaper/better product?? By the way, if I crush a pill/supplement-tablet and drink it up in/with water, I will get close to 100% of the content/value. So I can spend $20 on a 90day supply of a different brand, while you spend $70 on your “OPC-3″, and we’re getting same value!

Now onto the MA “Business Model”, tell me something, If someone (use yourself as an example) was not already a MA UFO/Distributor/Partner, would you buy their product on a normal basis (like you are buying it since you are in the Business, and of which they FORCE you to by setting a requirement?) Would you? Also would you VIGOROUSLY market it the way you do as a MA agent, if you were’nt an AGENT? Please people should stop lying to and deceiving themselves and other.

@Mr. Kobie: Hmm. MA call itself an UN-franchise. Lots of people would say that McDonald’s food is not a need (craving / addiction perhaps). And I’m not sure a lawn-mowing franchise solves a ‘MAIN’ need, but I’m happy that it’s legitimate.

Basically your beef seems to be that MA reps lie, make bogus claims and ‘push’ their product on people. Big generalization. Please set a better example.

We agree on condemning bad marketing, we disagree on who is to decide the ‘value/price’ of a product (Rolex anyone?)

My consistent advice is to pick a product/company you can feel good about recommending, and then only learn and use ethical MLM marketing.

@Dr. Russel, I am a MA UFO. I know. . That’s how I was brought in (incomplete truths, deceit, bogus stuff, and even outright untruths sometimes), and that’s what is taught, by everyone in different teams (I have worked across different teams, and sometimes I am just like “wow how can you be saying that, or saying it incomplete like that” when I hear people talking to prospects) and even at seminars “indirectly” … I mean a speaker will say something like “Oh, by the way before I start talking today, I’d like to say I’m responsible for the speech/statement I say exactly as I say it, and not how you interprete it because sometimes it can have another meaning.haha (they laugh, and then everyone in the seminar laughs)” … I mean, if what you are saying seems to have multiple meanings, then why not be straight forward and say it exactly as it should mean, and not make it sound like a “politician talking” where the politician structures their words to mean multiple things, but really we all know what the politician may be trying to say, they just won’t say it direct so they can shield themselves from possible issues that may come up by saying “Oh my statement meant this not that”. The MA peeps may all attack me, but the truth is wow, this MA stuff is “deep”.

You may ask “Well, if you know these stuff and feel this way, why are you still in the biz?” Well, its MLM (I don’t care whether they call it UnFranchise or Network Marketing whatever.ITS MLM! Who’s deceiving who here, please!). MLM pays after a long time once people are in under you. I have ethics though, and once I feel I have made back my investments with some profits I will most likely definitely quit; or well even though I “feel” I am taking some “losses” I may still just quit . I know I will quit for sure at some point; I can’t stand it sometimes.

Why not get paid on services people use ,can’t live without and have no choice to pay for them!

[EDIT: LINK TO OTHER MLM HERE REMOVED]

@Mr Bourbs: Er, why not market in ways that other people will respect you for, rather than trying to hijack another company. These tactic don’t work! Are you seriously going to tell your team to go use such methods so they can duplicate your ‘success’? Hmm.

@Mr. Kobie: So if I hear you right, you will give up once you have ‘made some profits’ ie used unethical tactics to introduce people to a company you can’t stand, just so you can to make money off them. Huh???

Not only is it bad ethics, it’s a poor plan for success.

MLM certainly pays best once you have put in the groundwork to build a big team that will provide you with stable residual customer-base and active distributors for the team to keep growing without your efforts.

IMO you are best off cutting your losses IMMEDIATELY, finding a company YOU can ethically endorse long-term (I have mine) and put that same effort in there. It’s only what would to anyway after you leave MA, but you would get the real MLM money sooner AND you will be sleeping more soundly at night. Stay in the biz of MLM – just take your lessons to a company that fits you.

Dr. Russel, thank you very much; I totally and fully agree with you that it IS bad ethics to make money off of people in the manner MLM does (and even more painful, the way MA does), especially with products that don’t really make much sense (I didn’t say they don’t make ANY sense, I said they dont make much sense, before some MA “UFOs” will come at me).

If MLMs carried say Corn-Flakes, Quaker-Oats, Sugar, etc, (real products, not rubbish supplements [of which I know MA will claim "oh we carry lots of products, you do not have to base your 'business' on just the Isotonix" ... when the reality is that they are biased to the supplements/Isotonix), then I wouldn't see TOO MUCH of an issue with it (but there's still an issue though which I won't address at this point), since I mean if anything, REAL needs would be met through the REAL products and legitimately too (referring to my previous post on Jan 17 as an example, about a "true franchise", versus MAs fake rubbish that they claim is a "Franchise without the fees" just like McDonalds).

With that said, I am actually very happy to tell you Martin that I already planned to quit this MA rubbish in one week from now and cut my losses (I already typed a letter up for canceling according to their requirement to do so in writing, and I say one week because it will take a bit before they get my letter and end this rubbish). To even give you an idea of my view-point that MA is rubbish and unethical and more, I actually had a few prospects that I had been following up with who were showing interest, and who "quote unquote" I had "deemed qualified for the business" (another rubbish they train UFOs to say/do, when the reality is THEY NEED PEOPLE), but I had called them and cancelled further appointments, and told them the entire truth of this MA stuff, and how noise is made of access to more products aside from "supplements [isotonix]“, when really the BV and system is fully biased in favor of Isotonix; and dont even get me started on that “IBV and Cashback Scam”. They will no longer be joining the “business”.

(I mean the IBV and Cashback thing is just crazy/scamming. MA UFO are all jumping and excited talking about how great the company is and that the company gives them cashback from “stores they partner with”, when really they don’t know that all MA is doing is being an affiliate and getting paid GOOD money, I repeat GOOD money, by going through the shop.com site to the affiliate/partner site. Let me give an example (of which I have a couple, but I’ve give just one from my PERSONAL experience):- I am an affiliate with Walmart [and lots other stores] (its free, you just sign-up for it on their website, and they approve it, and you just make a link to products or just their main walmart site and post it anywhere you want such that it can be clicked to get to the website). I bought a 60″ Flat-Screen this past christmas for $1200, and I clicked through MY OWN affiliate link (or if I rephrase it in MA lingo “I clicked through MY OWN SHOPPING PORTAL LINK TO GET TO A STORE I PARTNERED WITH, lol). I was paid back about $100 for this purchase (i.e. as an affiliate for “referral myself”). 100 DOLLARS! Now if I used my “MA Shop.com portal” and went to walmart from there they would give me “2% cashback, 4% IBV”. I imagine walmart gives me the exact same commission as they would give all their other affiliates [or if anything they would give a bigger company even better commissions since the company would be bringing in lots of buyers more than I would, which obviously MA has "fooled" lots of people into doing -- quoting their leader "MAKE THE SHOPPING PORTAL YOUR HOMEPAGE", lol] — so MA would get AT LEAST $100 (same as I got by buying from my own affiliate link, as opposed to going through my Shop.com portal’s link), and then MA would give the buyer who “they referred to their MA PARTNER stores” only 2% of $1200 = which is ONLY $24, and then they POCKET/TAKE the remaining $100 – $24 = $76 … MA just made $76 for doing virtually NOTHING! They then would also give 4% IBV (for those who are UFOs), which would be 48IBV. … useless 48IBV (I can explain the “useless-ness” of IBV on another day for the benefit of those who don’t understand).
DO MA UFOs SEE MY CALCULATIONS! Any person that sees and understand my calculations, but yet still thinks “MA Cashback and IBV from PARTNER STORES is awesome” is TOTALLY FOOLISH and being SCAMMED, and they are beyond redemption!! Their eyes have been successfully fully shut closed by MA.

So to conclude, Dr. Russel I applaud you! You are a truly good and ethical person (especially with your statement/alignment with me that a person who knows the truths would not hesitate to quit), and I am glad that we have some areas where our thoughts and concepts align. You are doing a great job with this forum/site. Please keep it coming; let all this MA rubbish stop! Please!

Thank you to all for this entertainment. I am a new UFO with MA and I will have no trouble referring potential customers/distributors to this blog for more information. Luckily, the only people I would consider recruiting to my team, are educated, informed, caring professionals who will be totally capable of sorting throught the uneducated BS from MA are crooks, vs the intelligent, informative, non-biased information of Dr. Russell, AJ, KB and James Tong. I am a medical professional who, after 24 years in a private “hospital owned” practice was fed up with the “business” of medicine and the lack of “care” in healthcare. When a “for-profit” corporation took over and demanded that I practice in an unsafe manner in order for them to make a profit, I was “let go” when I refused. I decided to open my own nurse-practitioner owned practice, with another NP. I began by studying basic medical practice ownership and creating a business plan. My partner and I put in our own funds as start up costs…..$45,000 and that was with creative shopping. Luckily we already had a patient base, and were able to keep our overhead low, but here we are, one year later and still about 6 months away from taking a “salary”. We are grateful to meet our overhead and begin to pay ourselves back, let alone make a profit! Well I became a MA UFO in order to supplement my income and continue to promote wellness to my patients. I believe in evidence based medicine, and find the obnoxious claims of MA are crooks to be totally unsubstantiated. Have they even looked at the number of people who have become sick from acetominophen? The bottom line is that the products would not have sustained 19 years of sales if they caused illness. They also have many other products that are actually less expensive than name brands, such as laundry and cleaning supplies, as well as makeup and pet supplies. What does MA are crooks think advertising is? Every company hires “actors” to promote their products, but when we the distributors tell people about the wonderful products “we” like, we are decietful and trying to make a profit? I had a “real job” with my graduate degree for 24 years of devotion and loyalty and it got me nowhere. First I lost my bonuses, then I lost my raises, then they demanded I see more patients and decrease the quality of the care I gave…..That is what I call deceitful. The cost to “try” MA is minimal compared to any other business venture. Anytime you start a business, you have to spend money to make money. If MA were not a “real” business, then the IRS would not allow business deductions or they would not need to report our commisions. I totally agree with Dr. Russell, every individual needs to evaluate for themselves and treat it like the business it is and make and follow a business plan. If you don’t try it, you will not get anything out of it. If you try it and don’t like it, you’ve only lost $130, plus $20/month. The products you buy to use or sell, don’t count as a business expense. If you buy vitamins from Walmart and don’t get any benefit after you finish them, will they give you your money back?
I look forward to reading more on this blog.

@Mr. Kobie: Just to clarify, I don’t agree that “it IS bad ethics to make money off of people in the manner MLM does”. (For more details on the key issue go to “What Is MLM?”.

I must admit I got lost in the Calculations paragraph. But I’m not sure about the rules of using your own affiliate link to buy from Walmart.

More to the point however, what are you going to do now instead? What do you recommend to those who were thinking of becoming MA Unfranchisees?

Because you’re surely not heading back to a J.O.B. and hoping the government will take care of your retirement.

@Tina: Congrats on keeping your integrity, and finding your entrepreneurial spirit.

MLM (even MA) may not be a perfect vehicle, but it’s possible to find crooks and bad ethics anywhere. Yes, even in medicine – shock, horror!

I am a unfranchise owner and a product user and you are darn right i would recommend any of my products to any of my customers. As far as the cost of some of the products being more on the website that is a lie. What this all boils down to is people that are afaid to spend money to make money. Well you spend money on your job to make soneone else money and that is helping you out how? When you go to retire there will be nothing there and chances are your probally wont be part of the 5% that is well off.Well you guys will see in the years to come just watch the news.@Dr Martin Russell:

Hey what happened to “Moosya”‘s post about fish oil and reports? I prepared a response.

oh yeh, and my response to Mr. Kobie too

@James Tong: Sorry James – nothing personal, just a computer malware virus that took down my entire site on and off for the last couple of days, and forced me to go to my automated blog backup to rescue it.

@Mr. Kobie:
Given all the things you have said thusfar, I am very surprised that you actually chose to stay and try to recover your investment. How did you plan on building your organization if you introduce things the way you did here? It’s unfortunate that you are quitting especially if on terms of misunderstanding (ie: lack of knowledge and accordingly going down the wrong line of reasoning).
We’re all guilty at some point one way or another, but let’s go through what you said:

1) FRANCHISE
Without going into detail, basically a franchise is a business model where you setup shop and do things according to corporate office using an established system. Some franchise stores may be directly owned and operated by corporate. Most franchisees don’t actually own the store; they are actually renting and usually need to renew yearly.
All organizations, both for profit and nonprofit, are established because a demand exists (or is aimed to be created) and a supply is readily available to meet those demands. The market for nutritional and dietary supplement is huge. That’s why they are developed and manufactured. As mentioned in a previous post, they are marketed and distributed by the manufacturer themselves or by third-parties.
2) ISOTONIX #1
Optimal health is never dependent solely on any one thing whether it’s healthy food, exercise, mentality, environment or supplement. Is supplement just a hype? No, especially since so much of the food we eat are commercially processed. Some people don’t believe in supplements and choose “organic” food instead. Your choice. As long as you can digest and get the nutrition your body needs. Think you’ll save money buying organic instead of supplement? Be my guest and do the calculations
Think the supplements are over-priced? There’s a reason why organic foods are more expensive than the regular counterparts.
Your comment on crushed pills is quite telling. The powder and pills are prepared differently. Isotonic solution in cell biology has been known for decades. If powder is absorbed much better than pills, why have pills in the first place?
3) SELLING
If done right, you do not need to “vigorously” sell anything. A good direct-marketing system is where the products are good and the compensation structure is stable and long-lasting. Of course the person has to do things right. For example, my parents wasted money on me by paying for my piano lessons because I only learned classic stuff and I wasn’t interested in that. The goal was so that I know how to play piano so how else to achieve this goal? What strategy to use? Well, they could’ve let me learned songs that I liked. At the end, I may not have gone up the levels established by the Royal Conservatory of Music but at least I will still know how to read notes and play. That was the whole point, right? In fact, I’ll probably play even better since I can actually put passion into it. Every individual has her/his own timing on things. They each have their own concerns, barriers, abilities, interests, and characteristics. All these come into play in determining whether, when and how a
person does something. My buddy doesn’t care about supplements but he drives every day and wants to save gas so I just introduce the fuel enhancer and told him the numbers that I got. If he’s interested, then I have a sale. His wife also doesn’t care for supplements but likes a good deal on laundry detergent so I sell her Snap.
Strategies are always used in business. This is why certain items or categories are shelved in certain locations within a store. Many business strategies are formulated based on consumer behavior. A good sale and customer relationship will often lead to sales of other things that you never expected to sell at the beginning.
I’m stating the obvious and it’s weird that I actually feel the need to say it but all businesses (in fact, all organizations) “need people”…
4) ISOTONIX #2
I don’t know what you mean by the BV being “biased in favor of Isotonix”. Did you mean how much BV you get per dollar spent? If so, check out the following random examples. Calculations are Canadian retail.
- OPC3 ($1.6441 per BV, or 0.60822 BV per $)
- Calcium Plus ($2.2259; 0.44926 BV)
- Advanced BComplex ($1.7023; 0.58743 BV)
- Motives minerals pressed powder ($1.7893; 0.55888 BV)
- Motives luminous translucent loose powder ($1.7892; 0.55892 BV)
- Royal Spa TriProtein Plus Deep Conditioner ($2.6367; 0.3793 BV)
- Fixx Argan Oil Shampoo ($1.8545; 0.5392 BV)
- Snap fabric softener ($1.892; 0.52854 BV)
- PetHealth OPC formula ($1.8591; 0.5379 BV)
- AutoWorks fuel enhancer ($2.55; 0.3922 BV)

5) STORE PARTNERS
I can’t say for sure but I doubt MA is paid 8% and gives 2. Affiliate marketing has been increasingly huge in the past few years. It is a form of advertisement. Most commercial websites likes retail and industry publication, as well as private ones like blogging sites alike, often feature click-on ads from sponsors. Posting ads usually don’t cost anything and of course the sponsor will pay and there are different ways this compensation is calculated. Youtube also pays private individuals who achieve high view levels. MA is not the only company that does cashback. Many credit card and other retail companies offer it too. 2 or 3% is quite a frequently seen number and maybe there’s a reason why. Amway and I think Fortune High Tech also offer cashback but they don’t have nearly as many store partners. Btw, which company are you that you affiliate with Walmart and offered 8% cashback?
Another thing to note is that affiliate companies consider the amount of traffic and the type of company they are offering cashback with. I don’t know the technicalities, maybe some other marketing expert here does?

Market America does have a Sales Representative option where there is no fee to join but you only earn on direct sales form your referrals. (typo alert: the word should be “from” instead of “form”)

Hi Martin, thank God your Blog is back up; I visited it a couple of times last week, and my anti-virus kept blocking it out from loading saying it was infected. Good to know you got it all fixed so all this very valuable information will be out there for everyone to see!

Martin, in reply to your post asking of my plans, No, I don’t intend to return to a job; lol. I actually own my own businesses/companies (more than one), and people work for me. One of my companies will actually be expanding overseas sometime later this year by God’s grace, as I am currently concluding a negotiation on a contract. I am very thankful to God because its not easy owning and running even one company, more so multiple.

@ James, I see you are the leading UFO here backing MA. All the points you wrote in response to my post does not “overturn/disprove” anything I said; my post still delivers the truth, and this is the core truth from an INSIDE MAN (yea, I’ve been in the “MA thing” and done all that, so I know EVERYTHING!!)

I am quite busy at this point, and will be for the next 3 to 4 months due to my companies/soon to be signed contract (and It takes a while to type up a solid response [like the previous ones I have posted] else I may have totally thrown out/shutdown your reply with more inside information and logical explanations that will make the head and stomach of prospects [and even current UFOs] who read my replies/posts ache in pain on realizing the rubbish they were about to get themselves into [or for the UFOs, the rubbish they are in] and be thankful to God that they found this blog). I will keep an eye on this blog, and try to come through with more posts once I am opportune.

@ Martin, please keep up the good work. … Keep it coming!

@Mr. Kobie: Thanks – all cleared up and back online now (thanks also to BlogVault backup service)

Robert Kiyosaki promotes MLM largely as a way for people to transition in skills and mindset from a JOB to being an entrepreneur. Sounds like you’ve already made it. Nice!

@James Tong:

Geez, it took me a bit to put those thoughts together… what a shame. I was really hoping to provoke some dialong in the area of tax deductions.

Based on my review of the responses above there seems to be little (if any) discussion of the tax advantages by simply using the system as a deduction. So, for example if we need to buy $1400 worth of BV/MA (or whatever they’re called) products per year. Then perhaps that amount can be offset by the deductions.. Thoughts?

And, my other point was related to the quality of the supplements, in that I would have a hard time recommending these supplements to my family and therefore it would be quite difficult to sell them to others… Although, I am open to learn more about these products. So if there are any bonafide test results which were conducted in an industry standard settings I would be curious to read

After spending nearly 2 hours reading every post, I must say this has been informative and a very worth while read. As in all things the truth often lies somewhere in the middle when dealing with marketing techniques, business models, and success formulas. The biggest variable when it comes to success is you, of course. It is my sincere belief that all businesses at times have questionable methods (at times) of developing and increasing their growth. One of the most common methods is by not being wholly transparent at the onset with regards to “true” expenses, plus time and effort necessary to become successful. Many promoters of MA will tell you that the company is transparent but I would argue that sometimes it’s what is partially implied and not fully discussed that is the problem. I often feel that these type of business models are set up purposely to “trick” you into making you believe you can be successful. And the kicker is…they are right in doing that because most of the population has been “tricked” into believing a 9-5 JOB will solve their financial woes and provide financial security. This generation more so than any other is getting a real dose of reality with many masters educated students in search of good paying jobs that simply aren’t there while facing 80K plus in educational loans. It makes one think sometimes IT”S ALL A SCAM!! The REAL TRUTH is…get ready here it comes….the biggest variable in any business attempt is YOU, YOU, YOU. The best training, the best education, the most informed individual with the greatest up line or down line or side line cannot be a success if they won’t get up and try again when they fail. A true entrepreneur will never lose sight or the hope for a better life and a better way to achieve it. There is no question that a residual income is the only best hope for most of us to ever have financial security. MA DOES have a plan for that even if sometimes it’s imperfect in it’s execution. The owner will readily admit this. All businesses are a work in progress and doomed to fail if they can’t adapt and change in this global market. But we all know that, right? MA is a leader in the industry precisely because it’s founder will not allow naysayers or competitors to catch his organization asleep at the wheel. MA is not for everyone but ANYONE can do it and be successful if the dream is large enough. Needless to say we can’t all be doctors or lawyers or CEO’s but we can refer people to a shopping portal or recommend a product we like….folks, that’s where it starts…whether in this business or any other you’re involved in.

@moosya: Sorry about the set back.

But as to tax, I would never suggest doing anything for the tax benefits (eg buying a house). Being in a business of your own is a good chance to learn more about the deductions that make it better than a J.O.B.

As to the ‘proof’, remember as soon as you make therapeutic claims you end up in the territory of medication and pharmaceuticals. As much as these rules help set standards, they also reduce the incentive to do full-on studies of other alternatives. Much of this industry is about ‘how you feel’. Pity.

@Jorge: Nice summary of the scam/reality.

Government/reserve banks etc are Ponzi schemes that we are all caught in. ‘Scam’ is relative.

As for ‘reality’ in MLM, you simply need to take a look at the ones that disclose their earnings figures. They are ALL the same percentages for ‘success’… http://www.carefulcash.com/mlm-income-the-disclosure-statement-says/

And since MLM is in reality a 2-5 year plan (shock, horror!) you need to fit it into a bigger money-making plan.

@Dr Martin Russell:
Hmm. If a tax deduction is part of a larger overall plan then what would be the point of excluding it from the equation?
The point is for people to consider all income and liabilities into their models.

Regarding supplements many manufacturers have turned to techniques to help illustrate the quality of their products; for example standardization of key and/or active ingredients. Let’s face it, just because the FDA does not evaluate a product does not mean that the manufacturer should not help to provide clarity.

@moosya:
For every post I made and every reply I got, I also receive a notice in my email showing the entire post. Check your inbox to see if you can find such notice for your post cuz I got a record of your original post. I also typed up a response for that original post. I’ll post a reply to your latest comment separately.
******************

TAX BENEFIT:
Income Tax was my second least favorite subject but perhaps I will point out a couple of things.
1) every state, province and country has its own tax laws and treaties. I live in Canada and have not been in the business long enough to get the tax form. I’m not going to dig through the Tax Act now but I’m not sure you can write off everything such as travel and hotel but you should be able to write off tickets, 50% meals and the mileage (using prescribed rates). Don’t quote me on this though! Independent distributors of another business may fall under a different category of business ownership and may consequently report taxes differently. Perhaps somebody else can comment on this.
2) Besides costs of supplements, have you considered the cost & benefit of the other product lines? If selling any aspect of the business is not for you and you are not able to use any of the product lines yourself, then you and the business may not be a fit. The reason why I say this is because the total cost of products in the year is likely going to be greater than the net tax benefit for that year. I would think that if this was not so, then everybody could be UFO’s and take advantage. Who doesn’t like free things, right? Especially from government! The same reasoning probably applies to any direct-marketing company out there. But of course people are not in the business to take advantage of tax write-offs; that isn’t the kind of mentality that I often hear about in the business world. You may wish to get more input about this from senior partners or perhaps even regional directors or field VP’s. You could consider being a sales rep instead of UFO so that you can just buy whatever and whenever. But I don’t know anybody who actually did that so I can’t say much.

PRODUCT QUALITY:
1) I have long wondered about obtaining reports on supplements in general. I have wondered how to get them and if they even exist for consumers to review. My feeling is that, if they even exist, they may only be available through certain interest groups within the industry (scientific journals, government agencies, etc). Partial abstracts and graphs may be available in industry subscription magazines perhaps, or newspapers? Look at Consumer Reports, they might have featured something like that before. Also, there’s a medical database (forgot the name) that you can subscribe to and be able to look up information on various supplements and ingredients. I haven’t actually looked at it myself so I don’t know if the database features technical names or do they actually list various manufacturers. Keep in mind that MarketAmerica does not manufacture but you can find out the names of manufacturers or suppliers and research those in particular. Another thing is, the OTC supplements industry is regulated less stringently than prescription. Can anybody explain the FDA’s (or any other regulatory agency) role in all this?
2) yes the Omega3 does seem rather expensive if you just compare numbers. Since you have spent your life doing so much reading, what have you learned about fish oil supplements? Types of fish (or other sources), how they are raised and farmed, etc. I believe all these come into play in determining quality and is not necessarily evaluated on numbers alone. There was some sort of lab experiment you can do at home to test quality of various Omega3 pills but I forgot how it’s done. Something to do with paper cups?
Check out the following article. It talks about supplement hype using DHA/EPA as an example. I don’t know how worthy the read is since it’s from a mainstream news source and I am not learned in the natural sciences.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/14/business/yourmoney/14omega.html

@Moosya:
I don’t know what you mean by tax deductions being part of an overall plan. As Martin and I said, people don’t normally go into business for the sake of deductions. My very limited understanding of tax policy is that governments allow business deductions for a number of reasons: 1) incentive to invest and create commerce, 2) businesses are taxed at a fairly high rate and tax writeoffs help to offset that, and 3) incentive to invest savings back into the business. There are other reasons I’m sure but somebody else will have to fill in on that. Do keep in mind that I am saying all this from a Canadian point of view. Other countries may have very different tax policies.

It seems to be true that many supplement manufacturers don’t necessarily provide a lot of technical detail to include with their bottles of product. I can only guess as to why. Perhaps there is a cost (or even regulation) in obtaining permission to reprint research findings for marketing purpose. Perhaps the typical consumer won’t be able to sort through the findings anyway. Or perhaps there are trade secrets involved.

I read this MA pro & con article but still not clear that MA is a good company to join. Need your straight answer.. Yes or no. Thank yoi..

@Milion Tran: 95+% of people who join MA to make money will NOT make the money they want to.

So it that an answer for you?

If so then avoid all MLMs, because they are ALL THE SAME! And I’m not joking as you will see here: http://www.carefulcash.com/mlm-income-the-disclosure-statement-says/

Even a good or great company won’t determine whether or not you succeed!

It’s more about having a better plan, better approach, and better marketing ie about YOU.

But certainly, if you don’t like the company’s products, approach, or the ‘value’ it offers in the marketplace, then it’s not a good company for you, and you should look elsewhere.

@Dr Martin Russell:

Where did you get that 95% number from? That’s more than 9 out of 10 people who sign up and not “make the money they want to”. I guess first of all it depends on what kind of money they want to and within what timeframe. MA says “2 to 3 year plan” and from what I have seen, people who worked FOLLOWING ALL INSTRUCTIONS given made, I would say, averaged about $40,000 by the end of 3 yrs. The sample I have in mind is only six people because I haven’t been in the business for long and I can’t identify everybody whom I’ve met that I believe0. have followed all instructions. These six persons are all female, chinese (except one who was korean), and none were particularly hot. One ran a jeans factory, one has a masters in computer engineering, one did trading, one is a aged 60+ retired middle school teacher, one was a retired celebrity, and one worked in the HR dept of a major bank . The HR and trading persons reached master coordinator while the celebrity reached professional coordinator level by the end of 3 yrs. They are no longer at that level now, especially the celebrity one cuz she’s going into her 14th yr now.

I’d like to type more but I have to leave town but then I didn’t want to not say anything about this. Have a good weekend!

And what happened to my post regarding Moosya’s concerns about data reports and fish oil?

@James Tong: Where do I get my figures? They are industry-wide for MLM and I pointed to the ones that are public in the Income Disclosure link. MA doesn’t publish one that I know of.

Once you have a downline in MA of >200 all-time you might have some percentages of your own you can compare. Or ask one of the 6 people you mention for their downline numbers.

Remember, I’m just stating facts. I’m not blaming the company. And I hope this blog is helping more people copy the success of the 1-5%.

As for the missing comments – it’s been two weeks of malware on & off, so backups haven’t kept all comments. I’d like to promise it won’t happen again, but this is the nature of working online. I’m sure we can leave room for other commenters to pick up the slack James.

This is an excellent review. I have joined Market America as an apprentice, trying to work things out to join fully. Some of the things you explained here I really didn’t realize. I need to think all of it through. Thanks

Scott Moore

@scott moore: Sure Scott – you have a few months under your belt to judge, so I’d be interested in what comes of your thinking.

Thank you for a thoughtful, unbiased opinion. I like your approach to sharing your knowledge and understanding. Thank you as well for all of the site info and helpful links.

All the best

@moosya:
Here’s the original post you made according to the notification I got in my email. I wrote a response, saved it and posted it multiple times. But then I deleted it later thinking that it was finally posted and now I don’t have a copy. Oh wellz…. I can always retype the same thoughts, I suppose.
****************

Hi all

Thanks to Dr Russell for providing a forum with such lively debate. I chanced upon it recently while looking for some more useful information regarding MA (ie shop.com). The business was recently presented to me by a colleague after he and his wife received their first check after only joining a few months earlier.
Anyway, many of the previous points helped me to solidify my thinking. Although I did not read through every entry (especially AJ’s, who is an obvious zealot, that is unaware of survivorship bias) but there seems to be a significant aspect to the model which has not been mentioned yet and that is the tax benefit.
Please correct me if I misunderstood but an MA ‘owner’ (pardon me if the term is incorrect) receives a 1099 which allows him/her to treat it as a business and therefore can qualify for the associated tax write-offs. Once this idea dawned on me I spent the rest of the presentation calculating whether the tax benefit would exceed the costs for the supplements. One possibility, I thought was that my family could simply switch to the MA brand of product and the idea could still work (even if we could not find any other buyers). So my next step was to review the MA products to understand more. Unfortunately this is where the MA model started to get a bit concerning.
While I rarely take supplements anymore (just trying to eat right, exercise and take an occassional ginger pill for motion sickness ) I spent my life exercising and reading about everything from Ashwaganda to Zinc and everything in between (including Ayurveda, Chinese herbs, acupuncture, hypnosis, meditation, etc). Over time I have concluded that, with regard to supplements, standardization, dosages and quality of ingredients are the most important aspects. For example i would not want to take a Ginseng supplement unless it had a certain percentage (eg 7%) *active* ginsenosides. Otherwise it is likely that none of the primary benefit-inducing ingredient are in the bottle (as many studies have shown)….
Anyway, several of the products seemed to lack any of the qualities that I mentioned above and therefore appeared expensive.
So, ultimately, I would not feel comfortable giving the products, which i did investigate, to my family. Even the omega 3 oil (from fish) is questionable since fish can be a source of pollutants and therefore it is very important to understand the background. And similarly the EPA, dha and gla ratios do not seem optimal.
So, in short, my dilemma is whether I can find enough quality products in the MA lineup to feel honest and forthright when pitching them to others. I’m the type of person who reads up on studies and if I was going to get someone else involved I would pass along that information. And so I would feel that I performed my due diligence and that I am spreading my knowledge and belief in the product based on fact.
Therefore if anyone has *real* reports and/or studies (stories and personal experience doesn’t count- the placebo effect is a true phenomenon) performed in bonafide and industry recognized settings then I would be very interested to learn more. Otherwise I will probably pass on this opportunity since as my friends have told me often, “I can sell ice to an Eskimo”. But the reality is that I only sell something (and those are usually ideas) when I have done all the research needed to fully understand the product. At that point it becomes easy because as the cliche goes, ‘I stand on the shouders of giants’…

ooohhh…..found a copy of my response to Moosya’s original post, haha dunno how I missed it:
*********************************

TAX BENEFIT:
Income Tax was my second least favorite subject but perhaps I will point out a couple of things.
1) every state, province and country has its own tax laws and treaties. I live in Canada and have not been in the business long enough to get the tax form. I’m not going to dig through the Tax Act now but I’m not sure you can write off everything such as travel and hotel but you should be able to write off tickets, 50% meals and the mileage (using prescribed rates). Don’t quote me on this though! Independent distributors of another business may fall under a different category of business ownership and may consequently report taxes differently. Perhaps somebody else can comment on this.
2) Besides costs of supplements, have you considered the cost & benefit of the other product lines? If selling any aspect of the business is not for you and you are not able to use any of the product lines yourself, then you and the business may not be a fit. The reason why I say this is because the total cost of products in the year is likely going to be greater than the net tax benefit for that year. I would think that if this was not so, then everybody could be UFO’s and take advantage. Who doesn’t like free things, right? Especially from government! The same reasoning probably applies to any direct-marketing company out there. But of course people are not in the business to take advantage of tax write-offs; that isn’t the kind of mentality that I often hear about in the business world. You may wish to get more input about this from senior partners or perhaps even regional directors or field VP’s. You could consider being a sales rep instead of UFO so that you can just buy whatever and whenever. But I don’t know anybody who actually did that so I can’t say much.

PRODUCT QUALITY:
1) I have long wondered about obtaining reports on supplements in general. I have wondered how to get them and if they even exist for consumers to review. My feeling is that, if they even exist, they may only be available through certain interest groups within the industry (scientific journals, government agencies, etc). Partial abstracts and graphs may be available in industry subscription magazines perhaps, or newspapers? Look at Consumer Reports, they might have featured something like that before. Also, there’s a medical database (forgot the name) that you can subscribe to and be able to look up information on various supplements and ingredients. I haven’t actually looked at it myself so I don’t know if the database features technical names or do they actually list various manufacturers. Keep in mind that MarketAmerica does not manufacture but you can find out the names of manufacturers or suppliers and research those in particular. Another thing is, the OTC supplements industry is regulated less stringently than prescription. Can anybody explain the FDA’s (or any other regulatory agency) role in all this?
2) yes the Omega3 does seem rather expensive if you just compare numbers. Since you have spent your life doing so much reading, what have you learned about fish oil supplements? Types of fish (or other sources), how they are raised and farmed, etc. I believe all these come into play in determining quality and is not necessarily evaluated on numbers alone. There was some sort of lab experiment you can do at home to test quality of various Omega3 pills but I forgot how it’s done. Something to do with paper cups?
Check out the following article. It talks about supplement hype using DHA/EPA as an example. I don’t know how worthy the read is since it’s from a mainstream news source and I am not learned in the natural sciences.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/14/business/yourmoney/14omega.html

I was a MA distributor for 5 yrs and I just converted to Sales Rep status because I couldn’t make this into a financially viable business for myself. I spent thousands purchasing products and going to meetings and received just a few commission checks. The jobs I was working at the same time were just too time consuming and my MA network (direct upline & downline) moved away or disappeared. I did sell products and brought in a few business partners but it was just too difficult to get repeat purchasers or people seriously interested in this business. Many times I invited people who told me they were coming to MA introductory business meetings but ended up as no-shows.

I started with MA before the economy tanked and have seen the shift towards even more skepticism and distrust about these types of home-based businesses. People are also watching how they spend their money even more than before. Sales in general is tough these days. However, I will continue to use some of the products and I have my favorites, some I don’t like. I will continue to take Isotonix supplements which lowered my cholesterol by 20 points–most people do find a benefit with OPC-3.

I do not agree with the statement “just go get a job”…because there is no job security or employer loyalty these days. And good luck getting a decent salary or benefits. Half of the companies I worked for in the past don’t even exist anymore….
I believe people should use their creative talents to secure their future without relying on a “job”. Side businesses (like MA) can work for some, but the majority of people will fail. For those who make this a full-time effort and have support they might have MA success within a reasonable period of time (a few years).

I have seen some people become successful and move up the ranks, but those who signed on a few years ago have an advantage to those joining now because of public skepticism. But, it will be easier if the distributor is outgoing and driven to succeed, constantly meeting/talking to new people, has a large network of friends & colleagues, has free time to work the business, and a supportive family or spouse. The most successful seem to be husband & wife teams, and certain ethnic groups who work well together. I found it very difficult to work this biz alone.

Good luck folks…!!

@My MA experience–the real truth: Thanks for your detailed feedback. That story is exactly why I recommend people have a better plan for their marketing.

Also, in a down economy some markets get tougher eg mature businesses in competitive niches with premium pricing. However, others actually get easier because people are worried about their jobs as you point out, and so they are SERIOUSLY looking for Plan B income. There are some MLMs that have grown substantially even since 2007, I know because I am in one of them, and that may be where you want to look instead.

@Milion Tran:
I’m not sure how useful a simple answer such as “yes” or “no” will really be, but I think there are a few things you should consider. Furthermore I also make the following general assumptions of you:

ASSUMPTIONS:
1) you understand what is and are interested in building a stream of ongoing passive income
2) you have at least a general understanding of direct selling, network marketing and multi-level marketing…. its limitations, advantages, history and how it can be relevant to your life in today’s world
3) you understand your own limitations AND potential, as it relates to direct selling and network marketing in general

As with any endeavor, business or otherwise, you need to take the time in researching. You cannot just rely on somebody else’s judgement by asking for a yes/no. You need to know what MarketAmerica is and how it compares with the rest of the competition. What are the similarities? What are the differences? Can you take advantage of both similarities and differences and leverage them to achieve the goals you want? Is the information you have current (ie: within the past half year) or was it from a few years ago? A lot of people, both outsiders and insiders (both fake and real ones), don’t do enough research before launching critique. It makes me think that people like to shoot first and ask questions later. I have a cousin who’s in the MA business and I didn’t know that before. It was a pleasant surprise for me to find out but what wasn’t so pleasant was that she was two years behind when it came to the internet marketing aspect of the MA business.

Back in 2004 and 2005 my wife and I spent over $15,000 on Market America’sk products, services, training sessions, serminars and many other things in this company, we did not make a dime off of what we spent.

@My MA experience–the real truth:
Your story was synonymous to a scenario that I had in my head when I first pondered about MarketAmerica and direct selling in general. After all, while product brokerage is not the only aspect of the MA venture, some sort of activity that results in the sale of goods is involved. What happens if the economy goes bad and people become tighter about their spending and budget? Is spending cuts the best solution or is it a change in the way money is spent? Maybe it’s both? This sort of issue arises with both consumers and corporations. Why do some fail and some don’t? Why does Apple report positive net for so many quarters in a row selling gadgets that I always think is overpriced? Were they or their customers not affected by the economy?

Five of the six individuals I mentioned earlier all began within the last five years and have achieved the results as described. Some were satisfied with the results while some were expecting more. Depends on their goals, right? I haven’t met a lot of people in the business and those six people do represent a minority of the people I have actually met. This means that people like Stacey Tung from Taiwan who also started five years ago and is now FVP does not count; I haven’t met her and I don’t know her. One interesting thing I have noticed long before I’ve even heard of MA is that recent years have seen increasing numbers of chinese names in the MLM magazines. I am not being biased or prejudiced but there is a reason why I stated the way I did the characteristics of those six individuals – local, Asian, female and not hot. These descriptions plus others can each provide clues as to why people experience various results in the direct selling business. My understanding of chinese people has historically been that they only look out for themselves. Thus I was surprised to see so many names listed. Did they cheat and scam in order to make a sale? Even now I am still trying to figure out the reason for increasing representation. Maybe the business is not just about selling. In fact, MA has given such enormous recognition for MarketTaiwan. Why? Because they are the fastest growing. MA has even shared new business-building tips based on MT’s experiences. Why aren’t there nearly as many Koreans, Japanese, East Indians or Filipinos? I find these groups to be more unified than chinese so why are there not so many of them in the business? Perhaps we could examine these groups more closely and learn a thing or two from them. Maybe it’s values and mentality shaped by culture. Maybe it’s geography. By the way, since I mentioned Filipinos, I should add that MarketPhilippines exists and that they started in October 2010. And then MarketUK last year. And then MarketMexico next month. And then MarketChina in the summer

At this point I cannot say whether you have quit for good or are you actually just taking a break. Perhaps you don’t know that either. But it is good that you hung on to the products. You have also believed in the value of ongoing income and to take personal responsibility for your own health and financial future. I take it that you have not had ideal results for the internet marketing aspect of the business? One thing I really like about this venture is that it encourages constant learning and always ready for new possibilities. The way you deal with one race may not be the same as you would for another race. One of the common traits in all successful business people is that they are always open while maintaining focus to a larger picture. Of course, this is not easy. That is why they become the minority. Do you want to be the majority (eg: 90%) or the minority (eg: 10%)? Or perhaps you want to lead the way by working towards something more balanced (eg: 60/40)?

And yes, you cannot (and not supposed to) do this business alone

@Walter Kayden:
Wow, that’s worse than ps65

@Dr Martin Russell:
Wow, I’m spending more time than I would like sharing thoughts here. But, as you can probably tell by now, I love to write. Weird how I ended up being in accounting instead ><

The market for such things as nutritional supplements, skincare and cosmetics are matured. The demand is still heavy for these things (women still wanna look nice, right?) so in order to stay competitive you'll need to do things a little differently. It may be in the product, it may be in the marketing. What's the difference between Centrum, Weber Naturals and Jamieson? What are their selling points and do these points work in attracting/retaining customers? And yes, Plan B is another reason why I am in the business. I had a WorldVentures person reason with me why I should go for selling vacations and flights instead of supplements. He didn't even have an idea how well MA is doing in internet marketing and thought MA was just another one of those product-selling MLM's. But anyway I might actually consider doing the WV thing as well. Rules first I would think…

But then again, maybe not (re: WorldVentures). I mean, if the total amount of savings in my vacations for the year is less than $600… if I can even have that many (or that long) vacations…
I’ll wait until I actually retire, lol XD
But then, according to the guy I talked to, the earlier to join the better since I don’t have to recruit as much in order to balance the other leg.
Anyways.

@Walter Kayden: Just one customer would have earnt you more than a dime.

What do you think went wrong Walter?

@James Tong: I do see you like writing.

Time to set up your own blog methinks.

I was approached today by someone I don’t really know. I just see her at my gym and she just babbled something incoherent about Isotonix and Market America. She wants me to “join” but the feedback and info regarding this company doesn’t sound good.

@ Dr Martin Russell,

I have just finished reading hours of your blog and would like to make a few observations.

Firstly, Thank you for remaining consistant in your opinion that MLM is not a viable option for everyone to make money, however with the right attitude, training and dedication it can work for a select few. Sadly that select few is a ridiculously low number.
I also have tried an MLM opportunity and it was a complete fail, due to my own lack of research and training as well as a poor understanding of what I was getting involved with.

In my humble opinion MLM is not a scam, however it is not a get rich quick plan and definatly not for everyone. My advice to anyone considering getting involved with any system of this type is to do your homework, research the opportunity and remember that if it seems too good to be true…….

Cheers and good luck with your futures.

@Flood: I’m honored you spent ‘hours’ reading this blog, and yes my message is consistent.

Only three things I would add to your summary:

1. Almost all the successful MLMers I know have produced results in more than one company, so they somehow can avoid the ‘ridiculously low’ success rate problem. It is VITAL to copy successful people in this business. Personal development and skills training are a necessity.

2. I would recommend MLM to anyone who wants to explore entrepreneurship and/or owning their own business. As Robert Kiyosaki says, it’s an ideal training ground for all business skills, AND for getting around people who WANT you to succeed. Try find any better and cheaper elsewhere.

3. MLM is a long-term income stream, and so you either need current income or a more comprehensive plan.

It is very funny when people post about what they do not understand. Do you know what a pyramid is your job. You will never make more money than your boss. Even when you work hard to get to the top the boss’s son or some family will come in and take over. Now which company do you know that the sponsored makes more money than the sponsor? NONE. As for our products they are the best on the planet. We also have an A rating with the BBB. We have remarkable recoveries that we see everyday. So you should visit a few more times to fully understand before you mislead people with your ignorance.

By the way anyone who would say this is MLM why not review it for yourself. If someone tried this and failed it is because they did not come out to trainings. This is not a get rich scheme, it is a get rich slow and forever. Everyone is this organization is always willing to help whenever you call. there is no breakaways and all that other restrictions like MLMs. As I said before check it out for yourself.

@Diana: I’m not sure which ‘you’ you mean in your comments.

Also, I’d be careful of coming across too hypey Diana, but congrats on your passion for what you do!

A lot folks here stated that MA does not work or it is a scam. let’s be honest here if YOU DO NOT MAKE IT WORK IT WON’T, just like everything else. Let’s treat MA like a job, if you did not sell a product, you will get fire, now lets treat it like a business if you did not a sell a product your store will close.(the key word is YOU not ma )
A business consist of product and services sold to the consumer if you are not doing this , then you are not running a business!

Performance equal success!. the next time you come here to complain look at yourself and truly look at your self,(very hard to do cause no one want to really call themselves a loser and realize that life did not deal you a bad card you just did not work hard enough to make it).
if you were in any business or any job and in the first 6 month you did not perform you will get fire or lose your business.
if you are looking at MA and think that it is going to WORK, you are wrong , you are thinking about it and thinking is not doing. MAKE IT WORK, do the work , do the work!

I came from a corporate world (no selling experience) I was not willing to make that one work, chose not do what was required… I made MA work only 2 years in, making 1500 every month and no real expenses cause I am selling the product.

@performance=commission: I certainly agree that alot of what is needed to move from a job to a business/MLM is UN-learning. Congrats on your results so far.

Hi Martin, its been a bit; just got back from vacation, and getting back into the office today, but before I get too busy, I just thought to give some quick comments on here, and this is directed at “Diana” and “Mr/Ms. Performance=Commission” (since that’s your real name):

First and foremost, both of you should go re-read my posts above (I’m Mr. Kobie), and then provide responses to the issues I covered.

Diana you talk “rubbish” about “oh why anyone would call MA MLM because it isnt?? … and they should try it out and see?” Rubbish!! I have been in MA for a while (so I didnt just TRY it, I WAS IN it, and I went to trainings and all that — WAS, because I ended that rubbish!), and sorry to burst your bubbles, IT IS MLM. Stop all that rubbish “oh its not MLM, its Network Marketing Binomial/Binary Rubbish!!” Two Questions for you : — Are there multi-levels of people, and aren’t those multi-levels of people (like YOU) the ones who do the marketing/sales? Are commissions/bonuses not based on the “sales/purchases” of those people on the different “multi-levels”? When some of you “UFOs” with MA come talking about how its not MLM, I just laugh at how unwise you are. Go and read up on the history of MLM, and you will understand that the “Binomial/Binary” structure which MA uses is described as the “latest” in the MLM industry. As for your comment about MA products being the best, I just laugh at your foolishness. Where are the facts/studies showing they are the best? MA products, even more specifically the Isotonix are OVERPRICED DUST! I’ve used and sold them, I KNOW!!!

Mr. “Performance=Commission”, you talk about how if someone doesnt perform in their job, they get fired. True; but the difference is that at a job, you dont pay them for anything, they PAY you for your time (for e.g. I pay my employees for working for me) and a job isnt something you are “FOOLED/ SOLD” into joining (as opposed to MA where people are pitched the MA plan, and an INCOMPLETE PICTURE, thereby misled into joining, only to realize/see the COMPLETE picture months or even years after joining and are disappointed). You talk about how if someone doesn’t sell the products for their store, it will close. True; but the difference is that at the first instance a store owner will get products that are competitively priced with similar products in the marketplace , thereby allowing them to sell the product (and the product will even sell itself, provided it is nicely priced and it does its work/ it works). That is not the case with MAs OUTRAGEOUSLY costly products, so it just makes me wonder how MA UFOs like yourself tell others to “Sell the MA product in their VIRTUAL STORE” when it is stupidly priced (and who knows if it even works??).

Let me give you an example with just ONE product — The Isotonix Pre-natal Vitamins. (I was talking about this recently with a lady/colleague I know who is pregnant and will be giving birth soon; she WAS also with MA, and like a lot of MA UFOs her eyes were BLINDED/FULLY-SHUT CLOSED, but she is FREE now, just like myself; We specifically talked about how outrageous majority of the Isotonix products are, but I’ll just cover our discussion on Pre-Natal Vitamins which she emphasized on).

So, How much does MAs Isotonix Prenatal cost? About $48 RETAIL for a 45-DAY Supply (Wholesale is probably 10% to 20% cheaper; I no longer have access to the MA Back-office since I’ve ended the rubbish, so I cant check it, but I dont believe it would cost any less than $25 to $30 WHOLESALE, and thats me being generous) . Do you know how much a “100-DAY supply” (I said ONE HUNDRED DAY SUPPLY) of an equivalent Pre-natal goes for in Hospitals/Clinics Pharmacy? ONLY $9 (NINE DOLLARS). So MA is basically ripping YOU UFOs OFF (and others who are foolish to buy the product), and making a profit of at least $20, and further FOOLING UFOs that “ooh its Isotonic capable, so you should pay a ridiculous amount for it”? That’s just sad! Then the likes of Diana & Mr. Performance, and all the rest of you UFOs come along telling us that “MA makes profits year to year, and they have an A rating, bla bla bla sheep?” Of course they will make profits, when they make you guys (and the end customers you are able to FOOL through your sales pitch, into buying the products) pay ridiculous prices as I have shown above; Not to talk about the penalties they put on UFOs if you fail to meet your quota (i.e. they basically collect your BV back, and we all know that BV equals money).

Do you know the facts about how many people truly succeed in MLM? Dr. Martin Russel has given the figures above, and I did a little research myself to confirm it (90 to about 95% FAIL, are what my research findings show). So going off of those figures, it means the “90%” are basically paying the 10% who “succeed”.

To close, let me give one more example with the Health Insurance and Pharmaceutical Industry. I own companies, and I have to provide insurance for my employees; In the process of reviewing the plans to provide within my company I was informed that our Providers have adjusted the plans in the areas of the medication/drugs, and require people on the plan to first get GENERIC medications as opposed to the BRAND names. Why do you think they did that? If you [Diana and Mr. P=C or even James Tong the "famous" MA rep on here, lol] can answer this question (or anyone else can please help them incase if they cant), I will applaud you. (And then dont just answer the question, apply the answer to the MA product scenario versus other similar products).

@Mr. Kobie: Your first day back from vacation and you pop in here – I’m not sure if I should be flattered or not. Most of my 2 cents are already on this thread but…

“Why did your insurance require generics?” Because they are bleeding money and want to save any way they can.

As for “overpriced dust” (cool term by the way), I’m happy to say that most supplements, protein powders etc, and some medications I have prescribed in my medical career, could also be labelled as this too.

Hi,

Just saw this site cause one of my friends spoke to me about joining MA. The only thing i would add here is the problem i have with MA. My friend who has obviously been to their seminar keeps telling why MA is good and the rest of the MLM is bad. He told me Amway was crap because they only reward the top but MA rewards everyone the same. While Usana copied their binary system. He also named a few more companies which i can’t remember. The products are all the same, its just vitamins and health supplement, Vitamin C is Vitamin C, anitoxidant is just antioxidant. The ingredients are similar only the proportion.

I am actually MLM neutral, like all business there are failures and success. My father-in-law does enrich and made diamond, one of my uncle is in Nu-skin while another is in Amway so i know regardless of the company this model does work

BUT.. what i must add is technically we are salesman earning commission, its not a part-time job and you won’t retire and live on residual income because you need to keep up the BV and maintain your leg. If you actually join the company you have to go for the seminar, attend their conferences, do meet up with prospect. It actually is a full-on job if you want to make a decent living – remember there is no free lunch in this world.

@Adrian: I have to agree that I don’t like how the MA ‘unfranchise’ has tried to distance itself from, and even disparage, other MLMs. But I understand why they do it.

MLM is by no means a free lunch – but I have seen MLM produce true retirement income AND be done part-time. Takes a lot of skills, and certainly takes time and persistence. And I recommend using a ‘funded proposal’ to make it easier eg MLSP

@KB: “Do you really think a company that has been around since 1992 could have products especially supplements that could do harm and stay on the market? Not a chance in today’s world”

Yes, most pharmaceutical companies do. All vitamin pills and supplements have side effects. Scientists have been proving it constantly (e.g. lately vitamin E pills). Humans do not use this products long enough to know their effects in long run. Sometimes 1 generation life is not enough. The biggest research laboratory is here: Americans are one of the unhealthiest and are the most obese people in the world and mostly like the only that use fat-free products and supplements for decades.

I was considering MA. Although if such products my success were be based on it would interfere with my ethic. For no money I would offer people to take a risk.

For the record Adrian’s earlier contribution contains errors of fact.

@Kat: You have to start with a company that you can honestly recommend. All the best at finding one, even if it’s not MA or any health supplement company.

@YL: Any you would care to point out?

This has been a very interesting and entertaining read. I don’t think MLM’s are scams. And I definitely agree it is not for everyone. You have to be focused and ready to work hard and to do things you would probably not like. Maybe even train yourself to like it. My aunt is in MA. She supports herself off of it and is very happy with it. But MLM is not right for me. I hate to sell. I don’t like having to ask people to come to meetings. I am unwilling to do what it takes. I think I’m too shy and timid but too stubborn to change.

I see how my aunt can be biased when it comes to MA products and program. But I actually like the Isotonix line. She gave me a scientific study about OPC-3 and it concluded that the isotonic version lasted longer and was more available than that pills of the same amount. Or was it its antioxidants that lasted longer and was absorbed better or something, I can’t remember. I like the fact I can drink my vitamins instead of swallowing a gross tasting pill. So if I absorb it better, cool. If not, at least it tastes better. Plus I’m supporting my aunt and not some vitamin shop elsewhere.

Lastly, businesses of all types have high rate of failure. It doesn’t matter if you put tons of money into it, you can still fail and make no profit or even come out negative. I know an ex-restaurant owner who is in major debt after having to close the business. I agree, you need a good plan and you have to work it. It is also very important to keep reading, learning, absorbing, and applying what you learn. It doesn’t work if you are just a passive body at meetings or seminars or unwilling to change.

@ Dr. Martin: Sorry if my two-cents is long winded. I don’t know how to say things concisely. Thank you and everyone for all this information.

@jenny: Thanks for your note. MLM can be a cheap, low-risk way for someone to face their fears, make mistakes, and get started in entrepreneurship.

The power is in the learning curve, including learning to be concise

I am a friend of someone looking in to Market America. I initially went to a product party with her, and she decided she wanted to become involved as a distributor. I wasn’t sold…on the products or the business. I later went to some other meeting with her where they had a lovely powerpoint presentation about the pitfalls of working a regular job, and NOT joining up with Market America. I am a naturally suspicious person, and it seemed to me they were trying REALLY hard to sell something that sounds SO great, invest about $1500 and make over $3000/month practically doing nothing. In my mind I’m saying…this sounds, 1.) like a pyramid scheme, 2.) too good to be true. Through some research I have found out Market America is NOT a pyramid scheme…however…it does seem they are quite misleading about the volume and timeframe of those profits. They present it like some easy side gig that will turn you in to a millionaire overnight when realistically…this DOES have to be your full time job for you to probably turn any kind of profit. Not to mention, when I asked them a simple question regarding the percentage of people who join AND acheive the success they are advertising in this little informational meeting…NOT A SINGLE PERSON could come up with a stat on that. It all seems very suspicious, and also like it takes a certain type of person to really be successful at it. It’s definitely NOT what they present it as.

@Dr Martin Russell:

Dr. Russell, please check the date that MA started. It seems that MA is older than that, but not certain myself.
I joined MA for 3 years and found the co. legitimate. I left the co. because I wanted to spend more time writing and publishing. I learned a lot from their training and networking with great people, lawyers, doctors, and scientists like myself. The founder is also a biologist. He has great vision and great programs. How else can you own your business and make a lot of money investing only few hundred dollars? Buying a franchise and work 60 h/week?
Those who said MA was a scam did not understand that you must WORK hard at any business. Network marketing system like MA, USANA, are not to be confused with “not-work marketing system”. Business, of any kind, is not for everybody. I quit MA, not because the co. is a scam but because I wanted to be a published author to help people from my experience. I still believe that JR is a brilliant business person, the unfranchise idea is fantastic. I recommend MA to many of my friends. Their products are fantastic as well. Nearlt ten years ago, MA started a gene kit, that helped design a product to solve your health problems by matching with your genes. That is a breakthrough in science. They also have cosmetics that are customized to match your skin tone.
No, I did not spend much money with MA and had earned commission with just 2 people that I sponsored and minimal work. I joined MA for OPC’3 (not OTC) that helped with my allergy, and immunity. The opinion from “MA is a scam” is wrong.
Dr. Navan